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Brexit

Westminstenders: The WA Vote ReDux

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/01/2019 23:01

Tuesday is scheduled to be the date of the Withdrawal Agreement Vote.

The current expectation is it will fail to pass. Badly.

If this is the case then May will have to report to the HoC about what her Plan B is within 3 sitting days under Grieve IV - by the end of Monday 21st January (which was the original date that Grieve III set).

Its being reported that if it fails that May will make some sort of statement either late on Tuesday or Wednesday before flying to Brussels in order to try and calm the markets.

This weekend has been full of politicking to position to get the WA to pass. Some of this is to push those who think that May will revoke or extent which will endanger leaving and some of it is to push those who fear no deal. Nothing is likely to be exactly what it appears.

The feeling is that No10 is currently working more to keep the defeat as small as possible in order to keep alive the possibility of representing the WA to parliament at a later date.

This week has seen big announcements from the car industry; none of which have been unexpected and some of which were connected to technology change and were likely to have been an inevitability to some extent, but the timing the week before the vote should also focus some minds.

We've had the news that 4000 civil servants from the following departments - Defence, International Development, Work and Pensions and the Education department - being lined up to handle no deal brexit, with secondments of up to 6 months. (The idea that staff from W&P might be moved with all the problems with UC is mind boggling).

We've also had the rumour that May has spoken to the Tory MEPs to inform them that if there is a chance of extending a50 and this means the UK would take part in June's European Elections. Many of the newspapers have been reporting this weekend that there is a high chance that the UK will not leave the EU on the 29th March as scheduled leading to the pound rising to its highest level in 7 months.

Dominic Grieve has stated the following, and I think its worth keeping an eye on.

Jack Maidment @jrmaidment
Dominic Grieve: Govt should immediately remove Brexit date from domestic law if it loses on Tuesday.

"without doing that there is no point in going to the EU and asking for an extension because we would still be crashing out and that would have to be, I think, a top priority"

It has been somewhat misinterpreted in some quarters as Grieve suggesting we change the UK's exit date. Its not. Its a reference to how UK law has a date set in it, so even if we did get an extension UK law would in effect automatically exit us legally on a domestic level, even if on an international level we were still members. This creates a bit of an issue whereby parliament would have to vote to make this change somehow, which would need to be facilitated by the government in some way - which means coming from the PM which obviously will be somewhat problematic for the cohesiveness of the Tory Party.

Indeed The Sunday Telegraph is tonight reporting that the Tories are on the brink of an historic split, with Brexiteers and Remainers both threatening to 'torpedo the Government if they do not get their way on Brexit'.

Pro-EU Mps are claiming that a third of the Cabinet would resign if May pursued a no deal Brexit and that several senior minsters want May to immediately open talks with Labour MPs about a compromise involving a permanent customs union if her deal is defeated by a large margin.

Steve Baker is warning that this would risk a split in the party 'akin to the schism prompted by Robert Peel's repeal of the corn laws'. And Bernard Jenkin has said that any attempt to change the exit date or strike a deal with the Labour Party would destroy the Conservative Party. For once, its hard to argue with either of them and say they are completely wrong.

Of course this also doesn't seem to fit with Labour's plans. The Observer is reporting that Corbyn plans to table a dramatic vote of no confidence in May as early as Tuesday evening in an attempt to force a GE. This is, to put it bluntly, fucking ridiculous. He would only need 7 Tory / DUP rebels (on top of the rest of the house) or some abstainers but it remains to be seen who these would be. A three line whip for Tuesday night, including for all unwell MPs is in effect for Labour.

Both the Mail on Sunday and The Sunday Times lead with similar stories about changing the rules of the HoC in order to effectively sideline the PM. The Mail refers to it as a plot between Grieve and Bercow, but the Times is much more broad stating:

A cross party group of senior backbenchers - including former Tory Ministers - plan what one senior figure branded a "very British coup" if May loses the crunch vote on her Brexit deal on Tuesday

At least two groups of rebel MPs are plotting to change Commons rules so motions proposed by backbenchers take precedence over government business, upending the centuries old relationship between executive and legislature.

Downing Street believe that would enable MPs to suspend article 50, putting Brexit on hold, and could even lead to the referendum result being overturned - a move that would plunge the country into a constitutional crisis.

The funny thing about all this news is at no point have I seen discussed whether we could extend a50 as it stands - as thats down to the EU. And at no point have I seen anything about how the EU would facilitate ratifying the WA at the eleventh hour if we have to go for round 2.

Indeed the growing feeling does seem to be largely that one way or another the WA is dead in the water if it has a large defeat. The question is perhaps now, what will the ERG do in this context? Will they plough on trying to persue No Deal? Because that too would surely lead to a split in the Tory party in some way.

A cross party group referred to the 'Norway Group' (Boles, Letwin, Morgan and Kinock) are apparently planning according to Boles, to make No Deal illegal.

So to put it mildly, next week is looking absoluetely mind blowingly crazy and likely to be explosive in some way or another.

And finally. Here's a handy tool for you.
How Many Days Until Brexit Timer

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MissMalice · 13/01/2019 18:33

That is what the leaver's want.

They want us to be out and not be rule makers? I thought the whole thing was about taking back control.

I can’t wait until they realise that “making new trade agreements” is going to mean handing out visas left, right and centre.

MissMalice · 13/01/2019 18:33

I’d go with that @ThereWillBeAdequateFood but with Lammy as PM.

AwdBovril · 13/01/2019 18:33

Why aren't the Lib Dem's getting their voice heard even now?

Possibly their belief that women are a concept rather than a biological reality doesn't help matters.

Peregrina · 13/01/2019 18:35

I’m not one to wish harm to anyone normally.

I am the same but I find myself wishing that some, May & Corbyn for two, could have a heart attack and be forced to retire. (They could then make a good recovery but politics would have moved on.)

BigChocFrenzy · 13/01/2019 18:36

MissMalice I remember 1983, when Labour voters weren't lost to the Tories but many went to the Liberal / SDP Alliance.
It was Labour 28%, LDem / SDP 26% and Tories about 43%

So the left & centre were split between 2 parties, but combined beat the Tories by nearly 10%

However, FPTP gave MrsT a huge landslide in seats

Even a lesser split, Labour going down to 30-35%, while May / her successor keeps 40%+ would give her a good majority

Peregrina · 13/01/2019 18:37

Possibly their belief that women are a concept rather than a biological reality doesn't help matters.

Haven't all the parties fallen for this?

BigChocFrenzy · 13/01/2019 18:40

imo, far more people would lose faith in democracy if the economy & their standard of living went down the toilet,
than would do so by an advisory referendum being over-turned, either by a PV or the HoC.

MissMalice · 13/01/2019 18:41

BCF - such a ridiculous system. Almost guarantees that we are ruled by a party that the majority don’t want.

DGRossetti · 13/01/2019 18:42

Why aren't the Lib Dem's getting their voice heard even now? ...Possibly their belief that women are a concept rather than a biological reality doesn't help matters.

I doubt 80% of voters have any idea what that's all about, to be honest. It might be hot on MN, but that's unrepresentative.

BigChocFrenzy · 13/01/2019 18:43

Most Tories - bar Miller & Mordaunt - don't push the TRA myths
UKIP are totally against

Everyone else - even the Womens Equality Party, ffs - admires the Emperor's New Clothes

RedToothBrush · 13/01/2019 18:44

Yes. The LDs more so than the others though. They are a refugee for people who have left another party in the midst of a massive safeguarding scandal and don't seem to understand why this might be a problem.

They have driven women out of the party deliberately too.

It hasn't gone unnoticed.

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1tisILeClerc · 13/01/2019 18:45

{I’m not one to wish harm to anyone normally.}
For true justice May and Corbyn should 'feel a bit rough' with suspected serious issue. Spend a weekend in a corridor on a trolley to discover it is trapped wind.

BursarsDriedFrogPills · 13/01/2019 18:48

PMK

BigChocFrenzy · 13/01/2019 18:48

MissMalice In 1983, I was a research fellow in the same office as an SDP member and he was nearly in tears the bday after the GE because

  • SDP / LDems got 26% of the vote but only 23 seats,
  • while Labour got 28% but 209 seats

Very unfair and wouldn't happen on the Continent.

Hazardswan · 13/01/2019 18:49

Ta red.

12 pages to catch up on wish me luck.

BigChocFrenzy · 13/01/2019 18:49

and MrsT's 43% got her almost 400 seats

IrenetheQuaint · 13/01/2019 18:50

Vince Cable has been an absolutely useless Lib Dem leader, and the other Lib Dem MPs are all pretty weak too, with the partial exception of Jo Swinson. With both Labour and the Tories falling apart and a massive gap in the political centre the Lib Dems should be getting vast quantities of Remainer support... But unfortunately they are too useless to capitalise on the situation.

BigChocFrenzy · 13/01/2019 18:51

Yes, the LDems took Challoner after she left the Greens - their father was convicted of dreadful crimes against a child.
I gather some TRAs moved with them

BigChocFrenzy · 13/01/2019 18:53

Yes, Cable used to be an excellent politician, but he seems several years past his sell-by date
No energy or oomph

Could say the same about Corbyn, when he doesn't have the kids serenading him

MissMalice · 13/01/2019 18:54

That leaves me with no one to vote for. Last time we had only Tories, Lib Dem and Labour candidates. If we get that again with a GE, I’d probably be in a position of having to spoil my ballot - but that feels like giving up my voice too.

I refuse to vote Labour and have to endure more of this ridiculous “80% of the people voted for a party committed to Brexit” rubbish.

RedToothBrush · 13/01/2019 18:56

Vince Cable has been an absolutely useless Lib Dem leader, and the other Lib Dem MPs are all pretty weak too, with the partial exception of Jo Swinson.

Jo Swinson is equally crap if you ask me.
And Layla Moran is a car crash.

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BigChocFrenzy · 13/01/2019 18:57

In the runup to the 1983 GE, we kept saying that Sod 'em all (Social Democratic Alliance) were the most popular ! 😂

We need another party / alliance that can be called Sod 'Em All - it would win a landslide if it's cleverer about FPTP

MissMalice · 13/01/2019 18:58

Was it Jo Swinson on QT this week? I wasn’t impressed by her at all. Too flappy.

RedToothBrush · 13/01/2019 19:05

Sod 'Em All - it would win a landslide if it's cleverer about FPTP

Yes. Get talking to any stranger about politics and no matter what your views on Brexit are, the chances are that sooner or later you'll get to that point where the common ground you find is this to the letter.

If someone can harness this sentiment, they'll do well. But the difficult bit is having the platform and being organised enough to have the momentum to do that.

The 2010 LD vote had a huge amount of this. And so did the 2015 UKIP vote.

As party loyalty breaks down (and it is being eroded) this is more likely.

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colouringinpro · 13/01/2019 19:06

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