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Brexit

Westminstenders: What The Hell Happens Next?!

996 replies

RedToothBrush · 09/01/2019 14:14

John Bercow has just spent over at an hour dealing with a Points of Order, in which he has argued that he is defending the soverignty of the House of Commons and that is his duty, not to simply to be a cheerleader for the executive.

Taking back control seems to have rather upset ERG Brexiteers.

As Jess Phillips astutely pointed out:
"People only care about procedures, and protecting and conserving the procedures, when they don't like the outcome of the thing that is about to happen and never when it is going in their favour."

And given what we have seen the Executive do over the last few months in terms of trying to use procedure for its own political gain, this is quite a fair point.

There are however certain constitutional questions this is all raising. And we have a very real constitutional crisis here.

Bercow has ruled that he CAN allow an amendment (because the previous vote had prevented only a motion and a debate) put forward by Grieve to go to a vote.

This amendment would - if it is passed by the house - require May to report to the house within 3 days if the WA fails to pass next week.

This would be a significant victory, if it passed because at present the position is where May can delay reporting back to the house until it start to get to the point where politically the opposition can't influence things, and a 'meaningful vote' will in practice be more like a gun to the head by the Executive, rather than the House of Commons acting in a sovereign manner and being free to make its own decisions rather than be forced into a corner by Parliamentary Procedure and the politicking of Parliamentary Procedure to undermine the independence of the HoC.

Allowing more time for the opposition to hold the government to account, does not necessarily change anything. It just means the executive can not just run down the clock in the way it perhaps has been intending.

The HoC could of course, vote against the amendment.

The WA is to come to the HoC next week.

And we have no idea what the hell is going to happen next.

OP posts:
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DGRossetti · 12/01/2019 17:14

It could be argued that the PM - apparently acting alone - having such power over the security services is one pillar of a totalitarian regime.

Or is that me just "being silly" ?

Is it "silly" of me to respectfully suggest as a matter of urgency someone, somewhere who can, and who cares for the country makes it their business to find out what else Theresa May has had her sticky little fingers in ?

I like to think I'm fairly level headed, and have tried to respect the role, if not the person. But with shit like this, it would take less than before to get me in the mob. With my pitchfork.

thecatfromjapan · 12/01/2019 17:15

Yes. I agree wrt the Greens.

My worry, wrt the Labour Party, is that the post-Miliband £3 membership + the takeover of key positions by Momentum - who are organised in a pretty unregulated way - is going to lead to something similar happening to Labour.

thecatfromjapan · 12/01/2019 17:16

It wasn't when she was PM, DGR.

But, yes, someone, somewhere, should really be caring about this.

nicoala1 · 12/01/2019 17:18

It is all too close to the wire now. But maybe that was intentional.

The EU will help if UK plays real and plays ball, but time is really running out now.

I am very saddened by this. But what can I do?

1tisILeClerc · 12/01/2019 17:36

What bothers me about the Farage roadshow is that not only is he still lying, but it is not being challenged and that as things for his 'sector' of the market (the mid aged principally white) haven't really taken much of a 'hit' yet as Brexit hasn't happened. Although it is not necessarily tying in with far right they are essentially pushing the same way. Anybody 'remain' is still pussyfooting around and has no solid leader.

nicoala1 · 12/01/2019 17:41

Interesting point @1tisILeClerc

Who is the voice of Remain?

Hazardswan · 12/01/2019 17:53

I'll be the voice for remain! I'm not elite! I come across as really common in person which causes problems for me but it'll give remain a whole new rebranding!
Grin

Mrsr8 · 12/01/2019 17:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

prettybird · 12/01/2019 18:02

Unfortunately Wink, I have a refined posh Scottish accent and, worse, a German surname Shock and wasn't born in the UK (one of the 60s Commonwealth immigrants not technically Windrush ) so I'm totally unsuitable as one of those elite Citizens of Nowhere Grin

bellinisurge · 12/01/2019 18:03

I have an Irish surname. I can't do it Grin

1tisILeClerc · 12/01/2019 18:04

{Who is the voice of Remain?}
This is a MASSIVE problem. Since 'Brexit' has so many possible meanings it can encompass the Far right, ERG, Farage and the hamster down the road in saying what the UK 'might' want.

1tisILeClerc · 12/01/2019 18:11

It strikes me that some of you could do a deal with the Iranian 'immigrants' and offer to buy their rubber boats to get OUT of the UK. Seems a bit like a 'win-win' to me.

nicoala1 · 12/01/2019 18:15

I am still looking for a REMAIN voice that might have some traction

NO offence to those offering their services lol. Good on you all!

There is no REMAIN voice really is there? If I am wrong, please point me in the right direction.

A bit sinister to me, but whatever.

Ta1kinPeace · 12/01/2019 18:17

Maybe my friend Grant Sharkey could do it ...
here he is interviewing Tim Martin of Wetherspoons
www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/17353999.heres-how-the-showdown-between-wetherspoons-chief-and-southampton-musician-went-down-and-its-not-what-youd-expect/
Video is only 90 seconds long

thecatfromjapan · 12/01/2019 18:21

Caroline Lucas; David Lammy; Jarvis Cocker; Andrew Adonis, Anna Soubry; Chukku Ummuna; Femi Sorry (sp?); Paul Mason (finally).

There are lots of voices - those are just a few.

The problem is that the Labour shadow cabinet are not allowed to be pro-Remain or pro-PV. And there is a strong move to discredit the pro-Remain, pro-PV from the Opposition Leadership.

It really dampens things.

thecatfromjapan · 12/01/2019 18:23

And, of course, being pro-Remain means painting s target on yourself for the Far Right (... and post-Jo Cox, that is genuinely frightening), aided and abetted by Right-wing papers, with precious little support from some sections of progressives.

thecatfromjapan · 12/01/2019 18:29

Lastly, it's been a real issue getting coverage in MSM such as the BBC. Remain isn't a political position endorsed by either of the two main parties, ergo, BBC balance means it doesn't need to be given coverage, really.

If you don't follow all these people, or read the New European, or get involved in one of the 4 main campaign groups for PV/Stop Brexit, it's easy to think it's not there.

Way more people are involved in Stop Brexit campaigns than Farage's homage to right wing mediocrity. But you'd never know that.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/01/2019 18:43

DG It's very wrong to even hint at violence
Leave that to the Brexit thugs around Parliament

BigChocFrenzy · 12/01/2019 18:48

Sometimes best to have several leaders, rather than just one who is the face of a particular policy

When that one person runs out of shelf life - as they all do sooner or later - or is caught with their trousers down / fingers in the till, then their unpopularity rubs off on the cause

whymewhynow · 12/01/2019 19:02

Good work, WMers Flowers. I'll email the slogans through to some of the campaigners (with a link to this thread). It was kind of shocking that they hadn't really got any together at this stage.

The depressing thing about the convention yesterday was that while there were some amazing speakers - Fintan O'Toole was superb, Caroline Lucas apparently was great, Nick Cohen was very interesting, Stella Creasey was advocating a citizens' assembly, James O'Brien (who I'm normally a bit meh about) made some great points, Carole Cadwalladr had a lot to say about dark money etc - there were no obvious leaders and, to be honest, if I was even slightly Leave, many of them would have got my hackles up entirely. It was a day of preaching to the converted which is inspiring for the converted but I really didn't feel many of the messages would change minds. Jeremy Clarkson has been very pro-Remain and I do wonder if it would be worth getting him to front a campaign as at least he would reach the parts the usual suspects can't.

Ta1kinPeace · 12/01/2019 19:04

Jeremy Clarkson has been very pro-Remain and I do wonder if it would be worth getting him to front a campaign as at least he would reach the parts the usual suspects can't.
Scarily I think that is a rather good idea !

SusanWalker · 12/01/2019 19:08

I see Plaid's Celtic union doesn't include Cornwall.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/01/2019 19:08

WIth several leaders, you can attract a wider rage of voters

Ta1kinPeace · 12/01/2019 19:16

My concern with the Green Party is that they are so "woke" they accept people like David Challenor and his daughter Aimee

I wish Vince would get on and resign and let Jo Swinson take over the Lib Dems as I think he could fire people up

but I really, really despair for Labour

PCPlumsTruncheon · 12/01/2019 19:16

chickens Thank you so much for the Sultan’s Elephant link. I went to see it with the DC and it was one of the most amazing things I’ve ever seen.
I got quite emotional watching it - everyone looks so happy. It made me remember why I could never leave London. It feels like it was 50 years ago.
I am beyond angry with Corbyn. David Lammy’s speech was blistering.
When did the rot set in with politicians? When I was a child, people generally respected politicians even if they despised their beliefs.That bloke not even bothering to defend the decision to give a contact to a company with no ships made me totally despair.