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Brexit

Westminstenders: What The Hell Happens Next?!

996 replies

RedToothBrush · 09/01/2019 14:14

John Bercow has just spent over at an hour dealing with a Points of Order, in which he has argued that he is defending the soverignty of the House of Commons and that is his duty, not to simply to be a cheerleader for the executive.

Taking back control seems to have rather upset ERG Brexiteers.

As Jess Phillips astutely pointed out:
"People only care about procedures, and protecting and conserving the procedures, when they don't like the outcome of the thing that is about to happen and never when it is going in their favour."

And given what we have seen the Executive do over the last few months in terms of trying to use procedure for its own political gain, this is quite a fair point.

There are however certain constitutional questions this is all raising. And we have a very real constitutional crisis here.

Bercow has ruled that he CAN allow an amendment (because the previous vote had prevented only a motion and a debate) put forward by Grieve to go to a vote.

This amendment would - if it is passed by the house - require May to report to the house within 3 days if the WA fails to pass next week.

This would be a significant victory, if it passed because at present the position is where May can delay reporting back to the house until it start to get to the point where politically the opposition can't influence things, and a 'meaningful vote' will in practice be more like a gun to the head by the Executive, rather than the House of Commons acting in a sovereign manner and being free to make its own decisions rather than be forced into a corner by Parliamentary Procedure and the politicking of Parliamentary Procedure to undermine the independence of the HoC.

Allowing more time for the opposition to hold the government to account, does not necessarily change anything. It just means the executive can not just run down the clock in the way it perhaps has been intending.

The HoC could of course, vote against the amendment.

The WA is to come to the HoC next week.

And we have no idea what the hell is going to happen next.

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ThereWillBeAdequateFood · 09/01/2019 14:28

Placemarking with a huge thank you for these threads. I wouldn’t have a clue without them (I still struggle if I’m honest).

DGRossetti · 09/01/2019 14:28

Not yet on "BBC breaking".

Hard to feel that had it gone the other way, it would have already made the top story Hmm

WhatdoImean · 09/01/2019 14:29

Potentially excellent news!

We really do not have time to piss about on this. My personal belief was that May was trying to run the clock down, and force a "my deal or no deal" edge of the plank scenario.

My only concern... the law of unintended consequences. While this may be good news for me for now, I worry what will happen in the future. I do not know; I am not sure that many parliamentarians are able to assess the full impact..

For now:- good news! Tomorrow - who knows, Rome may burn :-)

MissMalice · 09/01/2019 14:30

I can’t bear Steve Barclay.

RedToothBrush · 09/01/2019 14:31

This from earlier today suggests the advice WAS not to allow Grieve VI. And he ignored that.

Steven Swinford @Steven_Swinford
NEW

John Bercow being advised by the clerks of the House that Grieve amendment should not be touched.

That doesn't mean he won't select it - this is John Bercow after all.

But if he does so he will be going against the finest minds on parliamentary procedure in the Commons.

Nikki da Costa @nmdacosta
More than anything this is not just overturning something the House accepted in a business motion, it is overturning the EUWA and procedure voted on and approved in both Houses with much debate and scrutiny, and indeed which Grieve accepted on floor of the House.

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bellinisurge · 09/01/2019 14:32

Does this help? Warning: link to pictures of kittens
https://www.boredpanda.com/cute-kittens/?utmsource=google&utmmmedium=organic&utmcampaign=organic

RedToothBrush · 09/01/2019 14:32

Adam Fleming @adamfleming
Arriving in Brussels to see @MichelBarnier, @MaryLouMcDonald calls UK plans for role for Stormont in backstop "ham-fisted" attempt to placate the DUP. Says there can be no veto for the Assembly. Asks EU27 leaders not to blink. (But she didn't bring MB a birthday present.)

Sam Coates Times @SamCoatesTimes
🚨🚨🚨 May DUP plan blown up in Brussels

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RedToothBrush · 09/01/2019 14:33

Labour Whips @labourwhips
Looks like around 18 Tory MPs voted for the #Grieve Amdt

Will list when they are available.

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prettybird · 09/01/2019 14:35

My elite pussycats Smile

Place Mat King Grin

Westminstenders: What The Hell Happens Next?!
BollocksToBrexit · 09/01/2019 14:36

The Independent is reporting that ministers are telling May to call a general election for 4th April. This will mean parliament will be suspended and therefore won't be able to prevent leaving on 29th March. Shock

RedToothBrush · 09/01/2019 14:36

DGR I can't see a BBC reporter on this subject live tweeting on my twitter feed, though it has to be said that my twitter feed has developed a shitty alagorythm over christmas and all my normal top tweeters are not appearing unless I search them out first. It could just be cos I've not been looking at them for a few weeks but its made today a right pain in the arse to follow and keep on top of.

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DGRossetti · 09/01/2019 14:36

I'm on record as suggesting Grieve isn't really the saviour some had him down as.

In the parallel UK (which never got into this mess in the first place) there are scholarly debates being held by respected intellectuals over the inherent dichotomy between relying on a nearly 3-year old advisory referendum and a constitution which has always mandated that no government can bind it's successors.

In the meantime, here's some gammon.

bellinisurge · 09/01/2019 14:37

@prettybird , I think I need to spend time on the Litter Tray topic. Guaranteed pictures of cats on there.

RedToothBrush · 09/01/2019 14:37

steve hawkes @steve_hawkes
Three sitting days from losing the vote?
That could in theory be Monday January 21st - the original date by which the PM vowed to come back to the House with a Plan B

Oh the irony.

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DGRossetti · 09/01/2019 14:38

DGR I can't see a BBC reporter on this subject live tweeting on my twitter feed,

I'm talking about the Live BBC site which can flash "Breaking news" at the speed of light.

Currently top story is still "MPs anger at Bercow" and no mention of the vote which was held (looks) 15 minutes ago ?

DarlingNikita · 09/01/2019 14:38

I thought Bercow was magnificent. Hope to god he isn't removed.

Me too, on both counts.

MsForestier · 09/01/2019 14:38

Lovely cats prettybird (not placemaking at allGrin)

lonelyplanetmum · 09/01/2019 14:39

Just trying to explain the Bercow events to DD (10). She commented "...but if it had been in the Brexit lots favour they wouldn't have been making a fuss about it then, would they?"

DGRossetti · 09/01/2019 14:39

That could in theory be Monday January 21st

Or "never".

DGRossetti · 09/01/2019 14:39

Just trying to explain the Bercow events to DD (10). She commented "...but if it had been in the Brexit lots favour they wouldn't have been making a fuss about it then, would they?"

Out of the mouths of babes ...

RedToothBrush · 09/01/2019 14:43

The Staggers @TheStaggers
The Speaker’s decision has no root in precedent but he is relying on the one rule that really matters in the British constitution, says @stephenkb

www.newstatesman.com/politics/elections/2019/01/what-does-john-bercow-s-unprecedented-action-mean-brexit-and-him
What does John Bercow’s unprecedented action mean for Brexit – and for him?

The Speaker’s decision has no root in precedent but he is relying on the one rule that really matters in the British constitution.

Far from being a crisis, this is the constitution working normally, albeit in a more high-octane manner than it would: a straightforward showdown between the executive and the legislature, with the only question that matters which of the two can command a majority of MPs to vote its way.

Bercow’s gamble was that he is protected by a double majority: that a majority of MPs will vote for Grieve’s amendment, meaning that he can say he is acting as he should as Speaker, and facilitating the will of the house, and that furthermore, he is protected by a majority of MPs who believe that he is on their side against the executive. Had that gamble been lost, Bercow would certainly have faced an organised and potentially successful attempt to oust him as Speaker. But it wasn’t, so he survives, protected by the one rule in Westminster that really matters.

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1tisILeClerc · 09/01/2019 14:43

Thanks Berllini
It has to be #21 Are We There Yet? for me!

OhYouBadBadKitten · 09/01/2019 14:43

here you all are!

springtimeyet · 09/01/2019 14:46

Another elite cat, he definitely thinks so.
Pleased to see someone trying to take back control, odd that Brexiteers don't actually like the process in action.

Westminstenders: What The Hell Happens Next?!
Mrsr8 · 09/01/2019 14:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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