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Brexit

Westminstenders: What The Hell Happens Next?!

996 replies

RedToothBrush · 09/01/2019 14:14

John Bercow has just spent over at an hour dealing with a Points of Order, in which he has argued that he is defending the soverignty of the House of Commons and that is his duty, not to simply to be a cheerleader for the executive.

Taking back control seems to have rather upset ERG Brexiteers.

As Jess Phillips astutely pointed out:
"People only care about procedures, and protecting and conserving the procedures, when they don't like the outcome of the thing that is about to happen and never when it is going in their favour."

And given what we have seen the Executive do over the last few months in terms of trying to use procedure for its own political gain, this is quite a fair point.

There are however certain constitutional questions this is all raising. And we have a very real constitutional crisis here.

Bercow has ruled that he CAN allow an amendment (because the previous vote had prevented only a motion and a debate) put forward by Grieve to go to a vote.

This amendment would - if it is passed by the house - require May to report to the house within 3 days if the WA fails to pass next week.

This would be a significant victory, if it passed because at present the position is where May can delay reporting back to the house until it start to get to the point where politically the opposition can't influence things, and a 'meaningful vote' will in practice be more like a gun to the head by the Executive, rather than the House of Commons acting in a sovereign manner and being free to make its own decisions rather than be forced into a corner by Parliamentary Procedure and the politicking of Parliamentary Procedure to undermine the independence of the HoC.

Allowing more time for the opposition to hold the government to account, does not necessarily change anything. It just means the executive can not just run down the clock in the way it perhaps has been intending.

The HoC could of course, vote against the amendment.

The WA is to come to the HoC next week.

And we have no idea what the hell is going to happen next.

OP posts:
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1tisILeClerc · 12/01/2019 10:03

Of course another waste of many Millions will be the eventual legal cases being brought on dark money and all the other shenanigans.
All taking up lots of exceedingly expensive lawyers time and simultaneously impacting on the UK's need to be working on new legislation which will be necessary whichever outcome happens in March.

prettybird · 12/01/2019 10:35

Not sure if this has been posted yet

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/11/brexit-theresa-may-prime-minister-deal

From Rafael Behr

Essentially Parliament gas taken back control but at the moment, until the WA fails and Grieve's amendment is imposed, the different factions opposing it can't/won't get their act together (due to having conflicting priorities/supporters)

But once that happens....

And so the race is on to form some cross-party coalition that can agree on some kind of plan....... once that coalition is found, “it is then effectively the government”

Having earlier pointed out that Brexit itself does not depend on this particular prime minister. It is easy to forget that, when the whole business has felt like a Shakespearean tragedy with May at its centre: the hostage to pitiless circumstance undone by her own flaws, consumed by a megalomaniacal sense of duty – a monstrous hybrid of piety and arrogance , he finished by saying that Birnam Wood is on its way to Dunsinane. The Brexit tragedy that was all about Theresa May’s ambition and misjudgments is coming to an end.

Still not clear what the end result would be Confused - not sure anyone is Sad

JSmitty · 12/01/2019 11:07

And we also have Paisley Jr and his frequent all-expenses-paid holdiays in the human rights hellholes of the world, and Arlene Foster who seems to have gotten clean away over cash for ash.

When will those staunch Presbyterian voters see this gang for what they are?

1tisILeClerc · 12/01/2019 11:14

Even more galling is the often claimed 'EU gravy train' and 'corruption'.
I would not pretend that this is not the case, where there is money there are 'irregularities' but to use it against the EU when it is blatantly obvious that corrupt practices are rife in the UK, is wrong.

whymewhynow · 12/01/2019 11:21

I was at the Second Referendum thing yesterday at which Caroline Lucas spoke (unfortunately, I couldn't get there first thing so I missed her speech). One of the panels was about how Remain campaign would be different this time and it transpired they will still working on a slogan and were open to any suggestions - which kind of implies they are struggling especially as they know that Leave will be using "Tell them again". I remembered that a few weeks ago there were some really good ones on one of the WMers threads but I can't find the posts. Does anyone else remember them or are they able to post a link? I wouldn't be trying to pass the ideas off as my own.

PCPlumsTruncheon · 12/01/2019 11:21

cat I totally agree with you about the Metropolitan poor. I live and work in a borough which has some of the worst poverty in London as well as some of the richest areas in the whole country. Knife crime is a huge problem.
During the Blair years, the LA set up a project to work with young people who were felt to be at risk of becoming involved in gangs. Two of the workers were ex gang members who had served prison sentences so the young people were able to relate to them. They worked through intensive mentoring and funding, within reason, activities that the young people were interested in. If was getting amazing results but was one of the first services to get axed under austerity.
Political thinking in this country is so short term and there is always an eye on the next election so that nobody is prepared to shell out and invest in services which cost more in the short term but pay dividends further down the line - not just financially but in preventing a load of human misery.
People who go down the route of a life of drugs and crime cost the state an absolute fortune. I have seen similar in mental health and children and families services where finances mean that there is only intervention when things reach crisis point.

Tonsilss · 12/01/2019 11:24

Farage has been threatening violence for a long time. Heard him do it on Radio 4, and no-one pulled him up on it.

Quietrebel · 12/01/2019 11:56

@whymewhynow

I have a few...

Brexit: wrong then, wrong now
Save Britain: Remain
Our Kingdom: United & European

Or simply:
You can't polish a turd

1tisILeClerc · 12/01/2019 12:03

{Our Kingdom: United & European }
Not as a slogan but a point that 'leavers' are missing, is that the UK (think of the name!) is ALREADY a union of 4 'countries'. Being part of the EU just extends it futher. There are differences in law between the 4 now.

Ta1kinPeace · 12/01/2019 12:10

A song for those who want to stay part of the EU ?

BigChocFrenzy · 12/01/2019 12:28

I suspect leave will use the migrant scare tactics again
-it'll still work

e.g. see MN's latest AIBI anti-immigration thread, which has a new twist:
someone complaining that her mc sister helps refugees instead of British homeless.

A real hate fest against the mc on that thread

Ta1kinPeace · 12/01/2019 12:36

And maybe the response to "migrants stealing our jobs" is
Come and do the job yourself

  • veg picking and meat packing are 90% done by seasonal EU workers
Brits are welcome to do that work .....
bellinisurge · 12/01/2019 12:41

If our benefit system isn't conducive to allowing seasonal work then tweak the benefit system. If accommodation is a problem, give tax breaks to employers that offer decent housing.
Not hard. Not dependent on being out of the EU.

Ta1kinPeace · 12/01/2019 12:58

bellini
One of my car wash boys (Bulgarian I believe) used to do veg picking.
They work 10 hour days, 6 days a week for 7 months.
At the end of it they go "home" and rest and recover for several months.
His back is now so bad that he washes cars.

bellinisurge · 12/01/2019 13:00

Yep, Ta1kinPeace , that's farm work for you.

1tisILeClerc · 12/01/2019 13:00

{His back is now so bad that he washes cars.}
With the 'retro' look of Brexit and the willingness to go back to the '70's it would be interesting to find out how many miners would like to go to those 'halcyon days'.

DGRossetti · 12/01/2019 13:04

Returning to the US workers forced to work without pay during the shutdown ...

I find myself idly wondering if there are powers tucked away in the raft of legislation here to basically require people to work without pay under threat of jail ? It's the only way I can envisage guaranteeing certain key staff and skills.

I'm not talking about it being illegal to strike. I'm thinking that someone in a uniform comes up to you and tells you that you are operating that or it's the Big House for you.

Icantreachthepretzels · 12/01/2019 13:10

I remembered that a few weeks ago there were some really good ones on one of the WMers threads but I can't find the posts. Does anyone else remember them or are they able to post a link?

I had an idea that the campaign should be run on the idea of showing ways that Britain has used their clout to create EU laws, the way we've helped with Europol and Galileo etc (to show that it's not us and them - just 'us'.) and that there should be the other side showing all the wonderful European investment in Britain - especially the run down areas. This could be done with the slogan Britain makes Europe great, Europe makes Britain greater

BCF boiled that down to a slogan you could put on a sticker Britain: we're even greater IN

Frankiestein402 · 12/01/2019 13:13

Slogans along the lines of "stuff it to the hedge funds" might be useful - though I'm sure they'll have gamed this sufficiently to win whatever.

BiglyBadgers · 12/01/2019 13:15

I think those two slogans are wonderful pretzels. I got a little tingle from them. Someone should definitely pass them over to the campaign groups.

Ta1kinPeace · 12/01/2019 13:16

DGR
I'm pretty sure that EU employment law is different enough from US that the UK is safe from that sort of thing
after Brexit though ......

Icantreachthepretzels · 12/01/2019 13:16

We should also run adverts about things that Britain has successfully blocked the EU from imposing (to show leavers that nothing is forced on us against our will) with the slogan -
want a veto and a voice? Remain!

SusanWalker · 12/01/2019 13:17

News just reported rally in London calling for a general election. Now JC has confirmed he will be backing brexit regardless what is the point in a general election? It won't break any deadlock. There is a cigarette paper between Labour's brexit policy and the tories.

Icantreachthepretzels · 12/01/2019 13:21

Someone should definitely pass them over to the campaign groups.

well if anyone knows how to - @whymewhynow or anyone else that knows how, I'm happy for mine to be sent. I imagine @BigChocFrenzy will also agree.

JSmitty · 12/01/2019 13:22

Fool Me Once: Shame On You.

Fool Me Twice: Shame On Me.