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Brexit

Westminstenders: What The Hell Happens Next?!

996 replies

RedToothBrush · 09/01/2019 14:14

John Bercow has just spent over at an hour dealing with a Points of Order, in which he has argued that he is defending the soverignty of the House of Commons and that is his duty, not to simply to be a cheerleader for the executive.

Taking back control seems to have rather upset ERG Brexiteers.

As Jess Phillips astutely pointed out:
"People only care about procedures, and protecting and conserving the procedures, when they don't like the outcome of the thing that is about to happen and never when it is going in their favour."

And given what we have seen the Executive do over the last few months in terms of trying to use procedure for its own political gain, this is quite a fair point.

There are however certain constitutional questions this is all raising. And we have a very real constitutional crisis here.

Bercow has ruled that he CAN allow an amendment (because the previous vote had prevented only a motion and a debate) put forward by Grieve to go to a vote.

This amendment would - if it is passed by the house - require May to report to the house within 3 days if the WA fails to pass next week.

This would be a significant victory, if it passed because at present the position is where May can delay reporting back to the house until it start to get to the point where politically the opposition can't influence things, and a 'meaningful vote' will in practice be more like a gun to the head by the Executive, rather than the House of Commons acting in a sovereign manner and being free to make its own decisions rather than be forced into a corner by Parliamentary Procedure and the politicking of Parliamentary Procedure to undermine the independence of the HoC.

Allowing more time for the opposition to hold the government to account, does not necessarily change anything. It just means the executive can not just run down the clock in the way it perhaps has been intending.

The HoC could of course, vote against the amendment.

The WA is to come to the HoC next week.

And we have no idea what the hell is going to happen next.

OP posts:
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Mrsr8 · 10/01/2019 16:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TatianaLarina · 10/01/2019 16:25

Is the answer to a Parliament full of fuckwits to offer a dodgy people’s vote mired in the corruption of the first, to a populace who don’t even understand the question?

Even if Remain won, it wouldn’t solve anything. Leave would be in uproar and campaign for a third.

ThereWillBeAdequateFood · 10/01/2019 16:25

Wow just listened to Eddie Mair on LBC. He was interviewing a Labour MP who wants a people’s vote (and that’s what she was on to talk about).She couldn’t bring herself to say a Corbynn government would be fantastic for the country.
I don’t disagree with her but wow.

BiglyBadgers · 10/01/2019 16:32

I think we need to accept that we are fucked. There is no good solution to this that will make everything super and everyone will agree on. There is no solution that is even guaranteed to get us the outcome we might anticipate. What we now have a range of possible scenarios that are all high risk, will all leave a significant proportion of the country furious and all might fail spectacularly. If we are very, very lucky one might result in us being slightly less fucked.

That's where we are as far as I see.

Happy Thursday!

Hasenstein · 10/01/2019 16:32

JC's speech receives a less than rapturous reception:

twitter.com/Jamin2g/status/1083329545271418880

Lots of young people with resolutely crossed arms and glum faces.

The Labour party really is kidding itself if it thinks it can win a GE with Corbyn at its head.

bellinisurge · 10/01/2019 16:33

Ok @Hazardswan . It just gets me riled up when people assume seniors voted Leave and when they seem happy they are not around to vote anymore.
Even a Daily Mail Reading Vernon Dursley-esque person was someone's Dad or Mum.

DGRossetti · 10/01/2019 16:33

I'm minded to agreed with you DG But...then what?

Nothing. We've already found out that all these amendments are predicated on the WA vote (so meaningless if it's not held).

We've already found out that parliament can't force anything even if it wanted to.

We've found out that Theresa May has nothing to lose having swatted away the ERG (and that should have been an end to them).

And we know that when the A50 clock has stopped, we are out of the EU.

So doing nothing allows Theresa May to stand up on March 30th and crow that she's delivered Brexit - as per manifesto - and now is the time we all need to pull together.

Voting Tory must be a little bit like being a smack addict. It's the only explanation I can see.

Mixing threads and points, but I was intrigued to see such an anti death penalty contingent on the Bellfield thread in AIBU, given he's almost a poster child for it. It did strike me as interesting if we accept the statistic about Leavers and the death penalty.

(If we take it at face value, it also showed that it's never too far from the truth to level the "thick" accusation at Brexiteer ...)

bellinisurge · 10/01/2019 16:35

In my wildest dreams she, at the last minute, says "Fuck it. I revoke A50". But that's not going to happen.

DGRossetti · 10/01/2019 16:40

It just gets me riled up when people assume seniors voted Leave and when they seem happy they are not around to vote anymore.

It is lazy thinking ... my DM could not have been a more staunch European (I guess marrying my DF made that point long before the EU).

It has thrown up some oddities. You would have put Jeremy Clarkson down (in fact that sentence could really have stopped there Grin) as a Brexiteer on steroids, whereas he's pretty pro-Remain.

Cheekysquirrel · 10/01/2019 16:41

My late 60s parents are pro remain.
My racist 80 year old MiL voted brexit though.

thecatfromjapan · 10/01/2019 16:41

Hasenstein That's actually quite shocking.

DGRossetti · 10/01/2019 16:41

The only way A50 can be revoked is at the last minute.

Incidentally, has anyone any inside info on whether it's possible to revoke the revocation ?

TheElementsSong · 10/01/2019 16:41

It's the anecdote =/= data thing.

Cheekysquirrel · 10/01/2019 16:42

She thought it would mean all the ‘foreigners’ that have moved into ‘her’ village would have to go home.

Hazardswan · 10/01/2019 16:43

bellini I'll be more careful with my words in future esp since I've said the same as you over a combo of age/class! Sorry again about your mum, your never old enough to not need her Flowers

borntobequiet · 10/01/2019 16:44

JC became leader of the Labour Party pretty much by accident. He became very popular very fast because he was perceived as different, ethical, honest. Young people in particular were charmed. He really was Magic Grandad. He did far far better in the 2017 election than anyone predicted (I think largely on the promise to nationalise the railways) and therefore gained political credibility.
However, the shine started to wear off fairly quickly, of course aided and abetted by the media, but largely because people began to see him for what he is - a one trick pony, reasonably well described by my (Labour voting) cousin as someone who hasn’t had a new idea since 1973.
Anyway - the faster they rise, the harder they fall, as Jezza will find out soon.

DGRossetti · 10/01/2019 16:48

Well if we can fiddle while Rome burns ...

Here's why I would argue we need more immigration from the EU. Especially if it brings in people with a sense of community like this guy ..

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46828770

The Dutch public have been warned it is "strictly ill-advised to lie down on a bomb", after a man did just that for about three hours.

The man came across an unexploded World War Two device while gardening in the town of Venlo on Wednesday.

When it started whistling he covered it with his body, apparently trying to limit the damage.

(contd)

Can anyone see Farage doing that ? Or JRM ? Of course not. They'd simply pull up in a big bus saying "Brexit means no more German bombs" (which, of course, misses the point that it's more likely a US or British ordnance)

bellinisurge · 10/01/2019 16:48

Thank you @Hazardswan .
Actually she gets her revenge by making me entitled to an EU passport. She was born in Ireland. And my daughter can get Irish citizenship too because of her.
Thanks, Mum.

Ta1kinPeace · 10/01/2019 16:52

A friend of mine despairs that her mother voted out because of the foreigners - spoken in her native German Accent [haha]

DGRossetti · 10/01/2019 17:05

DW has just completed a 200 point (!) YouGov (not bad, since she cashed in her £50 yesterday Grin)

One of the questions was Do you dream about Brexit ?

(Wish they'd hurry up and get my next 5 surveys to me quickly ... that's prepping money)

Ta1kinPeace · 10/01/2019 17:13

Ooh, mine was only 50 points - but I got that question too Grin

DGRossetti · 10/01/2019 17:20

Clarkson plugging TGT-S3

www.thedailybeast.com/jeremy-clarkson-trump-is-bad-but-brexit-is-a-thousand-times-worse

and just for offence...

But the former Top Gear host—the man who’s made so many jokes about foreigners that you could get into double figures of Google result pages before you found a duplicate controversy—is defensive when asked by The Daily Beast if he feels at all responsible for the outpouring of anti-immigrant feeling in the country, which has poisoned its recent politics.

“I don’t know how I’ve done that, I’ve described myself as pro-European for about 30 years,” said Clarkson. “I feel European, when I go to America and people ask where I from I say I’m from Europe. So I’m not sure how I contributed to a few coffin-dodgers in Barnsley deciding that they don’t want to live next to a Syrian.”

DGRossetti · 10/01/2019 17:21

.

Westminstenders: What The Hell Happens Next?!
Mistigri · 10/01/2019 17:22

Serious people now playing fantasy front bench:

twitter.com/carlgardner/status/1083395577038229505?s=21

Remainer unicorns, probably, though something dramatic has to happen if we are to get out of this mess.

nicoala1 · 10/01/2019 17:46

I honestly have never seen anything like this mess (apart from Trump, but hey, it's the economy stupid and that is doing ok there whatever you might think of him.)

Honestly, the road to self destruction is being paved by a few who will benefit, and sorry now, those who know no better IMV of course.

Revoke A50 please and start again. Which will be never. Only way now.