For anyone against having a second referendum...

[Elle087]

As we get closer to March 29th we are not only running out of time but running out of options.

Many leave voters will have you believe that all 17.4 million of them voted with a no deal in mind so having another referendum would be undemocratic.

But i ask anyone with this viewpoint to come on here and tell me how this can possibly be true when some of the most prominent leave campaigners were on record before the vote saying that no one was talking about leaving the single market and we could be like Norway?
How many of the 17.4 million people voted thinking this would be true?

With a no deal brexit this will be confirmed as complete lies so the people must be consulted again before we let this happen.

I'm 99% certain that if the only choices were remain or no deal then remain would win by quite a margin, maybe 60/40.

Revoke Article 50 and then after a period of 'reflection' hold a second referendum.

Of course this will mean a period of stasis, until the next MEP elections. But nothing is going to be resolved until the next MEP elections after 2019, in which the UK isn't involved in currently, and will not be in any event that happens.

The UK currently looks like a drunken spouse who refuses to acknowledge the severity of the divorce.

Of course nobody voted for catastrophe and destruction but people did vote, in good faith, and the right thing to do is to try and get a good deal that serves both sides interests in a fair way. Theresa May is trying to do this - we are waiting to see if we can resolve the couple of issues in the WA. Then hopefully enough people will vote it through and then it's another 20odd months of sorting the trade deal, which I have no doubt will discussed at great length in commons and on TV and mumsnet and so on!

Then everyone can just get on with their lives and govt can get on with domestic policy. To have another vote, another election sigh before we've done what we've already voted and had two elections on(!!) is just playing silly buggers really, it's just sabotage, it achieves nothing, just political bedlam and conflict. People refusing to offer solutions and helpful comments to these problems such as the border and getting out of the backstop, when all our energy should be on making sure that this happens smoothly imo, simply feels like a hijack. It's wrong.

I actually think that this will go through, the UK and the EU will find a way forward, as there are so many people that voted leave, aren't getting involved with the social media rowing - some are even the civil servants and the staff involved just quietly getting through all the paperwork and the meetings. Jill Rutter is a bit like that - she speaks in actual process and parliamentary fact rather than slinging mud around like on some of these threads - she just calmly talks about what's actually happening.

It feels like what sometimes people who are angry about the outcome now sometimes talk about it as if there is going to be some kind of trade war and that both sides wont be just trying to get through it it's just such drama.

How does Parliament square the circle of a shift in public opinion ?

Parliament squares the circle of public opinion by voting through the withdrawal agreement. You want Brexit? This is how it happens. You want Remain? We're leaving. You want No Deal? Away and shite, that's for actual fucking idiots.

The UK is leaving and the WA is the ROUTEMAP for doing it as smoothly as possible. The WA is not the 'final' outcome but from it many things are possible. The only thing not on the list of things that can be discussed in the WA is Remain.

This chap is! and wont win any GE so long as Labour are on a leave ticket, there is zero incentive to vote Labour.
Come on Jez show some leadership.......

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/21/jeremy-corbyn-labour-policy-leaving-eu?CMP=twt_gu&fbclid=IwAR2yTro8nqtUnf7KmIopQYKOXVf2FIkUA_FyYWx5iXslde5PKXZUrAVJaLM

Reading that Guardian article it is clear Corbyn simply isn't up to the job.
A handful of well meaning but woolly ideas and a failure to understand that the ONLY negotiation the UK is going to get is by getting the WA signed and then NEGOTIATING HARD using the WA as a starting point.
Yes it will be damn hard, that is what proper negotiators do, and Corbyn isn't one of them.