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Brexit
Original poster

For anyone against having a second referendum...

183 replies

Elle087 · 19/12/2018 11:18

As we get closer to March 29th we are not only running out of time but running out of options.

Many leave voters will have you believe that all 17.4 million of them voted with a no deal in mind so having another referendum would be undemocratic.

But i ask anyone with this viewpoint to come on here and tell me how this can possibly be true when some of the most prominent leave campaigners were on record before the vote saying that no one was talking about leaving the single market and we could be like Norway?
How many of the 17.4 million people voted thinking this would be true?

With a no deal brexit this will be confirmed as complete lies so the people must be consulted again before we let this happen.

I'm 99% certain that if the only choices were remain or no deal then remain would win by quite a margin, maybe 60/40.

OP posts:
badlydrawnperson · 20/12/2018 10:33

Why is carrying an ID card a burden? I have one and I assure you it isn't!

I expect anyone who asks who I am to believe me in the first instance. It's one more card to remember to carry and another bit of admin to do.

Surely any costs involved are worth it in order to counter illegal immigration, illegal working, identity fraud and terrorism?

Well no, actually, not ANY costs. It might be worth having if it could be proven to cut those - but surely in order to make significant inroads into them, it would have to be demanded for almost all regular day-to-day transactions - otherwise we we'd just be carrying card we never used?

explodingkitten · 20/12/2018 10:33

The ID cards don't show your address people. Just your photo, name, DOB and person number.

Racecardriver · 20/12/2018 10:35

But the vote was in/out not in/out no deal/out x deal/out y deal etc?

At any rate I am opposed to the idea of another referendum because I think this needs to be over and done with one way or another. If we have another referendum it is unlikely that there will be a majority for either no deal, remain or, Mays deal and then where would we be? Keep having expensive and inconclusive referendums?

The original referendum was a vote for either certainty or uncertainty. The outcome was for uncertainty. That’s exactly what we got for two years. I can’t deal with another two years of postulating and moaning uncertainty. I really don’t want Britain to loose the next ten years to brexit. We need to get out and focus on making the most of it.

1tisILeClerc · 20/12/2018 10:35

{Personally I don't give a damn what you think
So when challenged on the facts, you have no answer.}
Since you are just a 'wind up' merchant there is no reason to waste any time looking this sort of data up.
I and many others have been waiting for over 2 years to hear what great things the UK will do to make it 'better' than it was in the EU. So far we have heard nothing of actual substance or even remotely verifiable.

icannotremember · 20/12/2018 10:36

It cannot be UNdemocratic to ask people to vote: if the will of the people is to leave, they will so vote in another referendum. I have run out of patience with brexiters and can no longer be bothered to pussy foot around their super sensitive feelings about all this, so I'm not going to pretend I feel anything but contempt for anyone who parrots the "we had a vote it would be a betrayal to have another" line. If they're so sure the people want Brexit, what do they have to fear from another vote? Their reasons don't stack up.

badlydrawnperson · 20/12/2018 10:36

@explodingkitten You may be partly right - but the fact is we have almost zero enforcement of immigration here in any case. ID cards wouldn't make much difference one way or another unless the government really stepped up enforcement and every citizen was forced to produce ID for lots of everyday transactions.

badlydrawnperson · 20/12/2018 10:38

Since you are just a 'wind up' merchant there is no reason to waste any time looking this sort of data up.

Every time I have tried to discuss this you insult me - who is the wind up merchant? The fact is you can't cope with anyone who doesn't agree with you. You have no answer on ID cards.

1tisILeClerc · 20/12/2018 10:40

{ I can’t deal with another two years of postulating and moaning uncertainty. I really don’t want Britain to loose the next ten years to brexit. We need to get out and focus on making the most of it.}

The project was WAY bigger than how it was presented on the ballot paper, it will take another 4 or more years to leave, could well be longer.
If you really want to 'crash out' on 29 March, then good luck to you as you will need it. It will be luck, not plans, because the UK government have left the planning until too late.

Slightlycoddled · 20/12/2018 10:40

If you make me carry a card as proof, you are calling everyone a liar
Sorry but that's emotive rubbish!

It would have to be demanded for all regular day-to-day transactions
I've already said I use mine less than 10 times a year

I expect anyone who asks me who I am to believe me in the first instance
This approach tends to work well for terrorists too! Hmm

badlydrawnperson · 20/12/2018 10:42

@Slightlycoddled

If you hardly use your ID card, what's it for?

1tisILeClerc · 20/12/2018 10:44

{Every time I have tried to discuss this you insult me}
Since you appear to be one of those who voted leave, you are insulting me by not presenting a shred of evidence that my life is going to improve. It has already got a heck of a lot WORSE due to people voting to leave.

badlydrawnperson · 20/12/2018 10:47

Since you appear to be one of those who voted leave, you are insulting me by not presenting a shred of evidence that my life is going to improve
Hilarious. Well, if that's what passes for an insult in your world, you are beyond help aren't you?

recently · 20/12/2018 10:50

I really don’t want Britain to loose the next ten years to brexit. We need to get out and focus on making the most of it.

You really think that if we get out that will be the end of it? The repercussions will go on for decades!

Slightlycoddled · 20/12/2018 10:52

0h purlease Hmm This has been answered many times. Just stop it now. Are you 12?

badlydrawnperson · 20/12/2018 10:54

0h purlease hmm This has been answered many times. Just stop it now. Are you 12?

Great argument, well backed up.

recently · 20/12/2018 10:54

so many people were denied the chance to vote in the first referendum stupidest comment ever, we would have to hold one every single year by that logic

That's a pretty stupid comment in itself. Why would we need one every single year? I was denied a vote in the first referendum (British citizen abroad). I don't need a vote every single year, I just need a vote on a deal which is likely to turn my life upside down. Too much to ask?

HollyandIvyarelivingitupagain · 20/12/2018 10:55

Why do Brexit threads always end up with personal bickering,petulance and foot stamping or are the just aping the politicians.
I have no idea what my family voted for except my mum 81who voted remain.I think if all the pensioners in nursing/care homes had the vote there would be more remainders.You may get more remainders too big n the younger people if they could be bothered to register and then actually vote.I think if there was a revote there would be a lower turn out this time.
In or out we're in for turbulent times,when the general election comes who do we vote for.Nither of the main parties have covered themselves in glory recently.

KennDodd · 20/12/2018 10:57

@icannotremember

I agree. I think we are facing civil unrest with ever way this goes now thanks to Leave voters stupidity and racism. No doubt somebody will come along bleating about not being stupid or racist, open your eyes.

badlydrawnperson · 20/12/2018 11:00

Why do Brexit threads always end up with personal bickering,petulance and foot stamping

I dunno - it's been a horribly divisive issue hasn't it?

I can't even say how I voted without people making a range of assumptions about me - and yet I didn't even vote for the party who gave us the referendum in the first place, although in my area that party's candidate would win if it were a nematode worm with a Blue Rosette.

badlydrawnperson · 20/12/2018 11:01

and as if by magic.....

Slightlycoddled · 20/12/2018 11:08

Badlydrawnperson
Don't goad me please. You've been given facts and answers which you have chosen to ignore.

badlydrawnperson · 20/12/2018 11:22

Don't goad me please

Ok, this from the person who says "are you 12" - you're not exactly innocent. I haven't been given facts at all.

I asked for proof that the costs of compulsory ID cards for all in the UK would be outweighed by savings - no such evidence has been provided.

I asked for examples of how the proposed benefits would be realised in everyday life and there was some vague waffle about the Police "not wasting hours" - which isn't "the facts".

I am not disputing the efficacy of ID card systems in other countries but there are very many flavours of such cards around the world.

My questions are about whether proponents of ID cards for the UK have any real evidence to back up their assertions. So far it's just been vague claims about unsubstantiated cost and time "savings".

missesbiggens · 20/12/2018 11:59

Wow quite a derail on the subject of ID cards. I think it's fair to say that forcing ID cards on the British public will not make us want to stay in the EU and 'please us' as well as remainers. It also would not solve the problem of illegal immigration or free movement of EU citizens into the UK. A totally random sidetrack that if anything, would push people more towards leave.

Am I the only one that remembers the uproar about 'civil liberties' under the Labour government when they tried to steamroller us into having them with the Identity Cards Act, which was repealed within the first few months of a Tory government.

missesbiggens · 20/12/2018 12:04

Not only would it be undemocratic to force a second referendum, it would be bordering on totalitarianism to keep asking a public to vote until they get the right answer. Can you imagine the tactics that would be employed to manipulate the vote the other way?

Messibhoy · 20/12/2018 12:05

Can anyone tell me what the EU do about the Irish border if we leave with no-deal.

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