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Brexit

Westminstenders: The Grand Old Duke of Brexit, he had 10,000 men ..

968 replies

RedToothBrush · 14/12/2018 09:44

May has marched us up, down and round and round. And still we are standing exactly where we began with no clue and no direction of where to go.

She may have survived a leadership challenge but it has resolved precisely nothing. And whilst many here are relieved because they feared an ERG proxy PM and the consequences and chaos of yet more lost time, May herself is a road block to any sort of resolution. Her inflexible approach and seeming lack of ideas are not helping matters.

May's rhetoric is that she will pursue a no deal v her deal strategy in extreme brinkmanship. Her efforts to reopen a negotiation that the UK had already agreed to have fallen flat with rising irritation for the EU. Indeed the EU seem to be toughing language (though it must be noted their position has remained exactly the same since the beginning)

The backstop is their red line, because its in essence the GFA.

May's promises to the DUP and to her own party were always unachievable; she should never have made them. She only did so to save her own neck, but in doing so, she makes it harder to force her deal though.

The all important vote it seems has been postponed until after Christmas. The deadline is 21st Jan. If there is no resolution the government have to make a statement in 5 days. Its still impossible to see it passing.

The Grieve III motion which was supposed to neutralise the threat of no deal has been rendered all but useless by the delay. Whether MPs realise this is another matter though. It could lead to a false sense of safety and not taking the prospect of no deal seriously.

Both May's actions and strategy and the false hope of Grieve III / revocation also weaken the prospect of alternative solutions to the WA, such as a Norway Plus or a People's Vote.

No deal preparations in the meantime have been stepped up.

May has promised that she will not revoke A50. The ERG clearly don't necessarily believe that or they wouldn't have launched their leadership challenge.

Would she though? Was it strategy or a slip when she said it was a choice between no deal, her deal or no brexit? And is this statement helpful or an additional problem in itself given subsequent developments?

I find it hard to forget her pig headed stubbornness and how she has persued court cases for no other reason other than to make a point, or for what looks like pure spite. I think she would no deal and take the fall out over revocation out of duty to her party and what she sees as her duty to the country to 'respect the vote'. The consequences be damned.

However the ever sceptical James Patrick does think she would revoke at the last minute because of her duty to the country and what no deal would do to the country. And she has proved she is for turning under extreme pressure.

The hard core of the ERG are also not done. They are avowed to do anything to stop a deal. Labour’s strategy seems to be tied to how serious the ERG and the DUP are with this. They are holding out for the prospect of a non-binding no confidence vote. Which is meaningless. Unless they have the numbers to challenge the Fixed Term Act then their current strategy is utterly pointless and just for the viewing consumption of those who don't understand how pointless this is. It's hard to see Labour’s real strategy as supporting anything but no deal in practice. Although the one ray of hope is that they did support Grieve III. They do need to wake up to the reality of the threat though.

Ultimately I fear it will come down to how MPs make this judgement call. Do they share my fears or do they share James Patrick's position.

And that is nothing but a gamble.

I fear Brexit will ultimately be decided on a gamble of What Would May Do. There isn't any other realistic prospect presenting itself at this stage.

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RedToothBrush · 17/12/2018 21:29

Alex Wickham@alexwickham
Labour: No10 running scared of confidence vote in PM

No10: Labour running scared of confidence vote in govt

People's Vote: Lab running scared of confidence vote in govt that would lose & make us all talk about PV

Lab: we want to do conf vote when we'll win

Nothing has changed

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BigChocFrenzy · 17/12/2018 21:37

😡
Faisal Islam**@faisalislam
Whilst reporting that some pro Brexit campaigners in yellow jackets were shouting misogynist stuff at Kay
and that I was “not British” and “a rapist” ...
well done all who helped create this situation.
Good job.
....

Tom Newton Dunnn@tnewtondunn*

Four policemen stand 20 metres away from this at Black Rod's entrance to Parliament.
Why aren't they nicking them for hate speech, breaching the peace etc
@metpoliceuk

< Why indeed 🤔 >

BigChocFrenzy · 17/12/2018 21:39

Politicians continuing with displacement activity, rather than make choices

BigChocFrenzy · 17/12/2018 21:45

A lot of hate about

Jamess@p4rus*

Lovely pro brexit people on tower bridge chanting "you're not British anymore" to people who disagree with them

Plonkysaurus · 17/12/2018 21:50

I don't want to be British anymore. Where do I get a citizen of nowhere passport?

MedicinalGin · 17/12/2018 21:53

Hello everyone! Longtime lurker here. Am watching Sammy Wilson mp of the DUP on the bbc parliament channel - he’s talking at a Leave Means Leave rally. The rally itself is terrible, just wondering if anyone else is watching it? At the moment he’s shouting about the supposed hard border in Ireland and how it’s just a big con trick. Am just baffled!

BigChocFrenzy · 17/12/2018 21:59

He's lying and / or he believed the ERG's lies about the border

BigChocFrenzy · 17/12/2018 22:00

Carole Cadwalladr@carolecadwalla

Excellent piece by @TomMcTague with disturbing new insights into fake news economy.
Theresa May's press secretary is taking soundings of "public opinion" from far-right "news" sites.
They are influencing policy at the highest levels
. Extraordinary given what we know now

BigChocFrenzy · 17/12/2018 22:02

Fintan O'Toole - superb as always

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/16/britain-has-led-a-charmed-political-life-but-there-is-a-price-to-pay-for-complacency?

“the unsettling of a nation is an easy work; the settling of a nation is not”.

One way to understand why the Irish question has been so fatal for the Brexit project
is to think about two islands and their degrees of unsettlement.

For Britain, the Brexiters have done the easy work of unsettling a nation.

Both parts of Ireland, meanwhile, have been involved in the much harder business of settling a nation long torn apart by deep divisions of allegiance and aspiration.

The great paradox of this moment is that the imperative of not endangering the fragile settlement on one island is profoundly unsettling for the other.
.....
The whole Brexit project has been .... easy work.

Make up lies about the European Union,
throw patriotic shapes,
get a smugly overconfident prime minister to call a referendum whose dynamics he does not understand,
tell more lies,
make promises you don’t believe in yourself,
use stolen Facebook data to target voters with xenophobic images,
tell everybody that they will have all the benefits of membership with none of the costs.

Easy work, all of it: no plans, no complexities, no responsibilities.
....
Only a country that does not really know what the collapse of political authority looks like would play this game

jasjas1973 · 17/12/2018 22:10

Theresa May's press secretary is taking soundings of "public opinion" from far-right "news" sites
They are influencing policy at the highest levels

Why wouldn't they?

May has more in common with Marine Le Pen than Margret Thatcher.

Eyewhisker · 17/12/2018 22:17

BigChoc - agree. Fintan is by far the best commentator on Brexit I have read. Despite living in the UK, I now subscribe to the Irish Times for their Brexit reporting. It is frankly amazing how little the BBC has reported, and the need it feels to give credence to Leave.

frumpety · 17/12/2018 22:19

I just have this feeling that someone somewhere doesn't like Corbyn.Wink Want rid of him ? Easy , get him to propose a no vote in the government, if he loses he loses, if he pulls the vote he loses, if he wins he gets the poison chalice and loses. Brilliant really.

Sits here patiently, waiting for Parliamentarians to tell the truth.

GD12 · 17/12/2018 22:44

@tnewtondunn

Excl: Cabinet will tomorrow order Britain’s six million businesses to start immediate preparations for a No Deal Brexit - significant shift in Govt's position with just 101 days to go.
t.co/CsvZEHhXAr

jasjas1973 · 17/12/2018 22:53

All part of the tactic to bully her deal through....a No-Deal will finish the Tory party and she knows it.

DoctorTwo · 17/12/2018 22:54

I don't want to be British anymore. Where do I get a citizen of nowhere passport?

Great question @Plonkysaurus, I was born here, my parents were born here as were their parents, and it's taken Brexit and a racist PM to make me wish I were a different nationality. I don't care what colour my Citizen Of Nowhere passport is.

TatianaLarina · 17/12/2018 22:56

We actually have a PM is playing brinkmanship with the economy of the whole country just to get her squitty little deal through and cling onto power.

And all we have to counter her is a ineffectual twit who can’t even table a No Confidence motion properly.

‘Wait for the right time’? This wasn’t it!

RedToothBrush · 17/12/2018 22:57

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/nhs-10-year-plan-postponed-to-new-year-as-theresa-may-battles-to-save-her-brexit-plan_uk_5c139788e4b0f60cfa281feb
Exclusive: NHS 10-Year Plan 'Postponed' To New Year As Theresa May Battles To Save Her Brexit Plan
Insiders say planned pre-Christmas launch is unlikely.

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TatianaLarina · 17/12/2018 23:00

All part of the tactic to bully her deal through....a No-Deal will finish the Tory party and she knows it.

Fuck the country, as long as Tories hold on.

ERG are suddenly finding merits in the WA apparently.

wherearemychickens · 17/12/2018 23:00

I would like a citizens of nowhere passport too. Can we secede and have a city state somewhere, with enough rural hinterland to keep us going?

Peregrina · 17/12/2018 23:02

a No-Deal will finish the Tory party and she knows it.

I hope it does, but I need to be careful what I wish for. I wanted rid of Cameron, got that, got someone worse.

RedToothBrush · 17/12/2018 23:05

Steven Swinford @Steven_Swinford

EXCLUSIVE

The Government has taken secret legal advice on extending Article 50 which it argues effectively rules out a second referendum.

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/12/17/exclusive-secret-legal-advice-extending-article-50-ministers/
Exclusive: The secret legal advice on extending Article 50 which ministers believe rules out second referendum

Advice states UK will be legally obliged to take part in European Parliament elections in May of next and subsequently have send British MEPs to Brussels if it extends A50

It warns there will be 'high risk of successful legal challenge' if UK refuses to take part in elections

Ministers who have seen advice say this means that July 2nd, the start of the next five-year session of the European Parliament, is a 'hard' deadline for extending Article 50.

They argue it means there isn't sufficient time for a second referendum, which could take up to 12 months to pass legislation, run campaign & hold votes.

Even advocates of a second referendum say it will take around five months if it's done quickly.

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SusanWalker · 17/12/2018 23:06

I'll take a citizens of nowhere passport too please.

What a shitty time this is. No wonder I'm lacking in Christmas spirit. Also just found out that I'm likely to moved into UC at some point in 2019. It better not be end of march.

TatianaLarina · 17/12/2018 23:06

^^ according to Paul Brand political reporter at ITV.

RedToothBrush · 17/12/2018 23:08

Tom Newton Dunn @tnewtondunn
Excl: Cabinet Plan B insurrection - 1. Penny Mordaunt breaks ranks to demand PM opens No Deal Brexit talks with the EU now for a “managed glidepath” transition to WTO;

Excl: Cabinet Plan B insurrection - 2. Hammond, Rudd, Gauke and Clarke saw PM in No10 today to try to persuade her to hold indicative vote for alternative Brexit path (unsuccessfully).

www.thesun.co.uk/news/brexit/8002988/penny-mordaunt-stand-alone-transition-brexit/
Brexiteer Penny Mordaunt demands Theresa May ask EU for transition period to allow No Deal Brexit without destabilising economy

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SwedishEdith · 17/12/2018 23:09

There's a lot of Twitter comments on the convenience of the timing of that Steven Swinford "exclusive".

Swipe left for the next trending thread