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Brexit

Westminstenders: The Grand Old Duke of Brexit, he had 10,000 men ..

968 replies

RedToothBrush · 14/12/2018 09:44

May has marched us up, down and round and round. And still we are standing exactly where we began with no clue and no direction of where to go.

She may have survived a leadership challenge but it has resolved precisely nothing. And whilst many here are relieved because they feared an ERG proxy PM and the consequences and chaos of yet more lost time, May herself is a road block to any sort of resolution. Her inflexible approach and seeming lack of ideas are not helping matters.

May's rhetoric is that she will pursue a no deal v her deal strategy in extreme brinkmanship. Her efforts to reopen a negotiation that the UK had already agreed to have fallen flat with rising irritation for the EU. Indeed the EU seem to be toughing language (though it must be noted their position has remained exactly the same since the beginning)

The backstop is their red line, because its in essence the GFA.

May's promises to the DUP and to her own party were always unachievable; she should never have made them. She only did so to save her own neck, but in doing so, she makes it harder to force her deal though.

The all important vote it seems has been postponed until after Christmas. The deadline is 21st Jan. If there is no resolution the government have to make a statement in 5 days. Its still impossible to see it passing.

The Grieve III motion which was supposed to neutralise the threat of no deal has been rendered all but useless by the delay. Whether MPs realise this is another matter though. It could lead to a false sense of safety and not taking the prospect of no deal seriously.

Both May's actions and strategy and the false hope of Grieve III / revocation also weaken the prospect of alternative solutions to the WA, such as a Norway Plus or a People's Vote.

No deal preparations in the meantime have been stepped up.

May has promised that she will not revoke A50. The ERG clearly don't necessarily believe that or they wouldn't have launched their leadership challenge.

Would she though? Was it strategy or a slip when she said it was a choice between no deal, her deal or no brexit? And is this statement helpful or an additional problem in itself given subsequent developments?

I find it hard to forget her pig headed stubbornness and how she has persued court cases for no other reason other than to make a point, or for what looks like pure spite. I think she would no deal and take the fall out over revocation out of duty to her party and what she sees as her duty to the country to 'respect the vote'. The consequences be damned.

However the ever sceptical James Patrick does think she would revoke at the last minute because of her duty to the country and what no deal would do to the country. And she has proved she is for turning under extreme pressure.

The hard core of the ERG are also not done. They are avowed to do anything to stop a deal. Labour’s strategy seems to be tied to how serious the ERG and the DUP are with this. They are holding out for the prospect of a non-binding no confidence vote. Which is meaningless. Unless they have the numbers to challenge the Fixed Term Act then their current strategy is utterly pointless and just for the viewing consumption of those who don't understand how pointless this is. It's hard to see Labour’s real strategy as supporting anything but no deal in practice. Although the one ray of hope is that they did support Grieve III. They do need to wake up to the reality of the threat though.

Ultimately I fear it will come down to how MPs make this judgement call. Do they share my fears or do they share James Patrick's position.

And that is nothing but a gamble.

I fear Brexit will ultimately be decided on a gamble of What Would May Do. There isn't any other realistic prospect presenting itself at this stage.

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BigChocFrenzy · 17/12/2018 20:24

bellini I believe the DUP will not give Corbyn his chance at PM unless the WA actually passes,
which to them would be betrayal

Also that May fiercely believes in her WA and will fight for it stubbornly, as always

However, if she doesn't achieve this, she'll keep waiting for either the HoC or the EU to blink .... and she'll probably wait too long

MissMalice · 17/12/2018 20:29

BbclauraK - “Sources suggesting its sounding like, as @Steven_Swinford reporting, govt are going to allow no confidence vote in PM to proceed tmrw - not confirmed by Number 10 yet”

BigChocFrenzy · 17/12/2018 20:34

Steven Swinfordd@Steven*_Swinford

EXCLUSIVE

Theresa May WILL allow time for Jeremy Corbyn's vote of no confidence in her tomorrow.

Told Government is convinced she will win - she has the backing of the ERG and DUP.

PM effectively [called Jeremy Corbyn's bluff.

Plus even if she did lose the motion is non-binding.

BigChocFrenzy · 17/12/2018 20:36

OK, it is a show before Christmas

A panto, with the ERGly Sisters
Get ready to boo the baddies, i.e. everyone

Hazardswan · 17/12/2018 20:38

Tis okay because it's non binding ?

NON BINDING?!

She is allowed to ignore a non binding vote, is she?!!

BigChocFrenzy · 17/12/2018 20:39

Meanwhile, the adults remain serious ...

Brussels makes no-deal Brexit plans as EU calls an end to talks

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/17/brussels-plans-for-status-quo-in-few-key-sectors-in-case-of-no-deal-brexit

... as No 10’s claims of more talks dismissed

Brussels is planning to maintain the status quo in just a few sectors, for up to nine months, so that its member states can avoid the most disruptive consequences of the UK crashing out.

But it has warned that it will bring those “transitory measures” to an end when it wishes,
and without negotiation with its British counterparts.

Under the contingency planning, British citizens in a EU country would be allowed a grace period in order to normalise their status.

The EU is to allow its traders to use UK-based clearing houses, which act as a middle-man in most of world’s trade in the $530tn (£420n) market for derivatives contracts, cushioning users from the risk of default.

Flights between the UK and the bloc would also continue for a period, although British carriers would not be allowed to operate between EU airports.

BigChocFrenzy · 17/12/2018 20:41

hazard She will ignore anything not legally binding
Hell, as Home Sec especially, she ignored BINDING court judgements against deportations

Motheroffourdragons · 17/12/2018 20:42

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

1tisILeClerc · 17/12/2018 20:44

Just when you thought Brexit could not get any more ridiculous, it does!

BigChocFrenzy · 17/12/2018 20:46

Corbyn is living down to my exceedingly low expectations of him

JRM too - sucking up to May:
"the PM now has my confidence"

after all his efforts to get a NC vote in her as Tory leader, he has confidence in her to run the country

BigChocFrenzy · 17/12/2018 20:47

Corbyn is living down to my exceedingly low expectations of him

JRM too - sucking up to May:
"the PM now has my confidence"

after all his efforts to get a NC vote in her as Tory leader, he has confidence in her to run the country

1tisILeClerc · 17/12/2018 20:52
Just change the names and faces.
lonelyplanetmum · 17/12/2018 20:52

It's beginning to look like Corbyn is even more of a clown than we originally believed.

DH just suggested Corbs tactics are a Machiavellian way to unite the Tory party in order to secure his beloved Brexit! It's a theory.

Hazardswan · 17/12/2018 20:54

bigchoc then she can ignore the non binding ref then... Grin

GD12 · 17/12/2018 21:00

@Peston

Government and @theresa_may have rejected Labour’s request for time to debate and vote on no-confidence motion in her. @jeremycorbyn now to decide whether to go for no-confidence vote in government under Fixed Term Parliament Act - which could not be stopped.Big choice for Corbyn

GD12 · 17/12/2018 21:01

Vote of no confidence in govt will pretty obviously fail.

RedToothBrush · 17/12/2018 21:04

Why is Corbyn trying to strengthen May?

(Rhetorical question)

Every Corbyn action atm, is effectively pro-May and anti committing Labour to a Brexit policy nor really about holding the government to account.

This is theatrics for the media and the fan base. Swing voters will be impressed by it. Many see it for what it is: grossly cynical.

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RedToothBrush · 17/12/2018 21:15

Sounds like the LDs have tabled an amendment which makes the Labour motion a full on No Confidence Vote.

Because that's a cracking great idea...

Ffs.

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BigChocFrenzy · 17/12/2018 21:15

I thought he was just posing, the classic virtue-signalling
but carefully choosing ways that have no rl effect.

He desperately wants to be PM, but first he wants the Tories to carry the can for Brexit / Remain
and explode into their component factions, so he can actually win.

Annandale · 17/12/2018 21:17

PMK on page 37 Blush

Really not keeping up.

I'm not sure many Cabinet members are doing better though.

The only insight I have is that so many of my husband's family voted Leave. Hearing them discuss it is infuriating heartbreaking bracing. Their expectations of post-Brexit happiness are becoming increasingly fevered. They used to sound a bit more measured, they are now convinced it will be tax cuts and fresh Grimsby fish for all.

TokyoSushi · 17/12/2018 21:21

Christ, I've been out for a couple of hours, WTF is going on now??

No confidence in PM seems to be sliding into no confidence in the government, is that right? Will they win that, or no?

What a time to be alive Shock

RedToothBrush · 17/12/2018 21:23

Will they win that, or no?

Not a cat in hells chance.

Corbyn will look stupid and May will come out stronger.

Unless Corbyn now pulls the vote.

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RedToothBrush · 17/12/2018 21:26

Corbyn could only win with:

  1. The DUP on side (not happening)
  2. The ERG on side (not happening)
  3. Tory abstentions (not happening in a vote where how MPs vote is listed by name as a public record)
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RedToothBrush · 17/12/2018 21:28

Waste. Of. Precious. Parliamentary. Time. When. We. Have. A. Shortage. And. The. PM. Wants. To. Run. The. Clock. Down.

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GD12 · 17/12/2018 21:29

After the chaos of tonight it looks like Labour is not planning to table a full-blown motion of no confidence in the Government.

So after all the shenanigans we're back to square one.

@Steven_Swinford