Leave voters? What's your alternative plan for the country if TM's Withdrawal Agreement doesn't get through?

[bellinisurge]

A small majority of people who voted in the referendum voted Leave. I presume they still want to Leave. How do we do that if the Withdrawal Agreement fails and Parliament has voted through an amendment which allows it to stop No Deal.
Talk me through it ...

Oh well, 948 posts in and no suggested alternative to TM WA that isn't No Deal.

What's the point of us coming up with an alternative? Do you think TM is keeping an eye on the thread for some tips?

What we think is a good plan means nothing. The MPs will eventually vote on whatever deal is put before them. We can discuss it until the cows come home - it won't make any difference.

What I don't accept is their attempt to frustrate the process, to keep demanding another referendum because they don't like the result.

It is literally their democratic right to do this. People have used legitimate processes to assert what they want. If it goes to a second referendum and the result is different; that is the same democracy as the first referendum.

Now if somehow Remainers were using illegal or undemocratic processes to assert their views, that would be different.

I haven’t heard of anyone doing that though? In fact it’s the reverse - the Leave campaign broke the rules, Government has tried to bypass democratic processes trying to get a Leave deal/no deal scenario over the line.

Bellini
I know you tried but there are only 3 choices and it would appear leavers are too rabidly 'leave' to come up with anything less extreme.
I was forgetting, I want the UK to leave, but nicely.
If you fancy a minor giggle, try this.

What we think is a good plan means nothing

Then you really don’t understand democracy.

@Weetabixandshreddies Leavers have been bleating about how no one listens to them. I've already said I accept Leave but I don't want No Deal. I asked for alternatives to TM WA. If you can't be bothered to offer it, the fault is yours.

Thanks for the vid @1tisILeClerc

What's the point of us coming up with an alternative?

Because you see after two years plus of waiting and wondering and still no plan that even a small majority of Leavers can agree on makes us sad underdogs feel a bit worried that there is no alternative to No deal.

Do you think TM is keeping an eye on the thread for some tips?

No but her research team probably dip in occasionally.

Bellini
It was posted by a friend in Brussels.

Leavers spent 40-ish yrs whinging after the 1970s referendum. I have AT LEAST 30 yrs of whinging to make up in reply.

What I don't accept is their attempt to frustrate the process, to keep demanding another referendum because they don't like the result.

But you presumably didn't have a problem with Farage and others starting up UKIP with the sole intention of getting the UK out of the EU and declaring that it would have been unfinished business if Remain won?

I'm with ragged on this. You won, now put up with 40 years of Remainers saying they want something different.

I told my mild mannered dh about this thread - he'd had to put up with some anti-Irish bs at work (we both have a very Irish surname).
Let's just say he wasn't very mild mannered about the Leaver unwillingness to offer any alternative to No Deal.
It comes to something when I am the voice of reasonableness and he is .... not.

If you can't be bothered to offer it, the fault is yours.

Nothing to do with being bothered or not.

I do not have the resources or the intricate knowledge of every rule regarding the EU and leaving to be able to draw up a plan. Nor am I able to have a chat to the EU to see if any plan that I did come up with is acceptable.

You love an analogy. Say you need surgery. Do you a) learn how to be a doctor, plan how best to do the surgery and then learn how to operate or b) go and see a surgeon and ask them to operate on you?

That’s a good analogy. Not everything can be operated on.

I don't love an analogy. I've said several times that I've learned it's triggering for Leavers.
I would have thought that at least one Leaver would have something helpful to offer. I don't expect you to be an expert. I know that is triggering for Leavers too.

But you presumably didn't have a problem with Farage and others starting up UKIP with the sole intention of getting the UK out of the EU and declaring that it would have been unfinished business if Remain won?

I cannot abide Farrage so I have a problem with everything that he does.

The government at the time, rightly or wrongly, gave voters a choice - to remain or leave. That was all. Not how we do it, just to stay or go.

It was not unreasonable of the electorate to say what they wanted. If there never was anyway for the government to operate Brexit then they never should have started this.

TM, knowing that she doesn't want Brexit, never should have accepted the job as PM. You cannot have a remainer negotiating Brexit because it serves her purpose if it fails.

OP, you keep telling us how much you want to stay in the EU, how terrible the UK will be post Brexit and that also you can claim Irish citizenship. Surely the answer for you is obvious?

as I recall, no one else wanted the job of being PM. TM had twice the ovaries of anyone else by grasping the poisoned nettle. She could have been run out many times -- but still nobody has the guts to take over unless they think it will be an easier ride.

since Brexit fall out will go on a LONG time, we could continue to have PM May for a LONG time.

{since Brexit fall out will go on a LONG time, we could continue to have PM May for a LONG time.}
Since there are supposedly over 48 letters of no confidence a 'long time' may be shorter than this week.
Out of protocol we won't know until she gets back late tomorrow or sfter that.

Ethnic cleansing? Really?

We have heard 48 for months & months. 48 never quite materialises. Plus all they do is provoke a vote. Voters can change their minds.

I'm trawling thru this list trying to think who would be accepted to replace May, too. Javid hasn't pissed off too many ppl, I suppose.

@Weetabixandshreddies
You love an analogy. Say you need surgery. Do you a) learn how to be a doctor, plan how best to do the surgery and then learn how to operate or b) go and see a surgeon and ask them to operate on you?
I do love an analogy, this is a good one. I would expect the doctor however, to explain the basis of the procedure, outline the risks and the likely outcomes, and if a likely outcome was, say I'd lose a leg, I might then decide just to trim my own toe nails.

Accepted by whom? Did you see the YouGov approval ratings which has them all in minus figures?

An EU MEP has suggested that EU and UK are asking the wrong question.

He says that what needs to be negotiated is UK stays in EU and EU makes special arrangement on FOM for the UK only.

He says EU has special deals for several EU countries and would suit the vast majority.

ragged

Whether anyone else wanted the job is irrelevant. She shouldn't have accepted it without being sure of her ability to do this.

If they couldn't form a government they should have had another election.

Long thread, so apols if already said, but Weetabix: Who do you think would have been the best PM for Brexit negotiation period?

Jason118

You are quite right and this has always been my frustration about both sides in this decision - neither side behaved well during the campaign. They just threw mud at each other. No one provided proper information and that was as much the fault of the remain side as the leave.