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Brexit

Is there really a majority for ending freedom of movement?

217 replies

Figmentofmyimagination · 05/12/2018 17:12

To me, the worst thing about Brexit is the removal of freedom of movement rights from UK workers, especially young workers. We've introduced the highest university fees in the western world, made housing inaccessible to anyone without access to the bank of mum and dad and now we are removing free movement rights.

What is driving this desire to limit the life chances of young people?

OP posts:
GD12 · 06/12/2018 17:18

And that's even before businesses lose access to the single market Havana.

Hesta54 · 06/12/2018 17:21

Havanananana

Is there really a majority for ending freedom of movement?
1tisILeClerc · 06/12/2018 17:22

One of the biggest 'lies' was the idea that 'They need us more than we need them'.
The UK is about to find out that after a bit of shouting it is starting to pale into insignificance.

LouiseCollins28 · 06/12/2018 17:23

Agree, if BMW were unable to get the engineers they needed in Oxford they could move their factory. I should imagine our universities can produce sufficient numbers that they won't need to (for that reason) at least.

@1tisILeClerc

A charitable response to your question would be to say that the then government (at the time of Accession 8) wanted them to arrive for the benefit of businesses. Because they wanted UK businesses to be able to take advantage of this new pool of labour.

A less charitable reading would be that they wanted to have all these people arrive for their own ends. That they would be attracted not just by an open labour market but by comparatively generous benefits that got paid to families with parents in work, and because of this they thought they would support the Labour party.

Havanananana · 06/12/2018 17:29

@Hesta54 - that quote applies to the EU. There was FoM before then under the Common Market/EEC.

'Auf Wiedersehen, Pet' aired in 1983, based on the real life experiences of British builders who went to Germany looking for work in the late 1970s and early 1980s.

DarlingNikita · 06/12/2018 17:34

it is only in the last 15+ years has it has an effect on us

Before then, as Havanananana says above and as I said earlier, it had the 'effect' on us of allowing people who could not find work in the UK to go to EU countries that were better off and benefit from the freedom to work there and send money home.

Hesta54 · 06/12/2018 17:42

Havanananana Sorry I thought we were trying to leave the E.U., the same E.U. that morphed from the common market, ( didn’t vote on that ) only 12 nations in the E.U. in 93, so FOM wasn’t such an issue,

Mistigri · 06/12/2018 17:44

Car companies aren't going to move because they can't get labour (they can afford to pay for the sort of skills they need to import - you don't pay qualified engineers less than £30k). They will move if just in time supply chains can no longer operate properly.

Hesta54 · 06/12/2018 17:50

Havanananana Times have changed since then with many more nations have joined the E.U., I’m sure bricklayers enticed to work for double your money, has not the same effect or numbers that has happened since, and I remember the German bricklayers were not very happy about it either

plaidlife · 06/12/2018 18:02

Manufacturers will scale down or cease production in the UK if there are tariffs and checks in parts moving in and items moving out of the U.K.
Uncertainty about this is already impacting decisions that are being made about this.
Freedom of goods is as important as freedom of movement. Making your country migration unfriendly doesn't encourage investment in it.

Havanananana · 06/12/2018 18:15

@Hesta54
...12 nations in the E.U. in 93, so FOM wasn’t such an issue,

Why was it not such an issue in 1993?

What and who made it an issue in 2016?

KennDodd · 06/12/2018 19:23

It's rubbish about tradespeople depressing wages here. I can't find a builder for love nor money. I want a small 10sqm extension I've been quoted 60k by two separate builders, oh and they can't start for at least six months. So, my extension isn't happening. Can't even get anybody to come round and quote for some smaller jobs.

GD12 · 06/12/2018 19:25

That's very true kenn, I've have trades people not turn up, cancel etc. They all say they're overrun with work!

Hesta54 · 07/12/2018 09:20

Most older tradesmen have left the construction industry due to falling wages, some hourly rates are lower than that in the mid 90’s, local builder near us has to Pole bricklayers, their on £8.50 p/hr, get more working at Aldi,
Why shouldn’t you wait to have a job down no tradesmen only wants a months work a head of them, would you like to work not knowing if you had any work next month

lonelyplanetmum · 07/12/2018 09:24

In response to the OPs question, this chart (before the ref) showed a majority of people narrowly in favour of British rights to live and work throughout the EU.

We were less in favour of reciprocity. Self important lot that we are.

At the very least, this shows that between 2014/ 2016 and 2016/2018 there are shifts in opinion with many 'don't knows'.

The narrow margins, inconsistencies and shifts are reason alone to wait until there is more consensus and certainty both in the electorate and the political establishment.

Is there really a majority for ending freedom of movement?
Nellietheeuropean · 08/12/2018 14:56

Most people discussing freedom of movement and the UK look at it from the point of view of people entering the UK. Has it crossed anyone‘s mind that the government may not be keen on freedom of movement as not having it will make it harder for UK citizens to leave to work in other countries and thus avoid a brain-drain post brexit.

1tisILeClerc · 08/12/2018 15:15

The 'brains' in Hi Tech industry and pharma already know that it is a 'collaborative' world so many will want to stay where they know they can get funding and a large marketplace. The UK is ruling itself out of that option unless it either makes a real effort to remain, or does some very serious negotiating post March 2019.

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