Is there really a majority for ending freedom of movement?

[Figmentofmyimagination]

To me, the worst thing about Brexit is the removal of freedom of movement rights from UK workers, especially young workers. We've introduced the highest university fees in the western world, made housing inaccessible to anyone without access to the bank of mum and dad and now we are removing free movement rights.

What is driving this desire to limit the life chances of young people?

i used FOM to work in Europe, i was bought up on social security, single parent family
I know plenty of building workers who ve worked in EU - how about all the UK lorry drivers in europe, thats all FOM !

No paper work required.

ok, well you can be snide.... or you can answer the problem. Up to you I guess

bellinisurge As I’ve said many times not all FOM is good for everybody, if it works for you, great, but understand it has impacted many people, as I said before just need some middle ground unfortunately it seems to be all or nothing

the plural of "anecdote" is not "data" HTH

@Shinesweetfreedom
How many are seriously from this country going to live abroad compared to the numbers that have come to this country

Somewhere between 1 million and 1.5 million British citizens live permanently in the other EU countries. Ordinary people (and their families) getting on with life doing ordinary jobs in factories, offices, schools, hospitals and so on, just as they would be doing in the UK.

Freedom of Movement is not just about permanent residence though. It also includes mutual recognition of qualifications and the ability to undertake work on a temporary basis and to freely travel for business reasons.

Thousands of British citizens work or study in the EU on a temporary basis, so they are not counted in the 'permanent residency' figures.

45,000 British consultants work with EU clients. There are thousands of engineers who work for British companies and who design, build, repair and maintain British machinery and facilities, travelling to the EU for periods often lasting many months. There are sales personnel who are out in Europe drumming up business. There are thousands of commercial truck drivers and coach drivers whose licenses cease to be valid on March 29th in the event of a no-deal Brexit. Ditto thousands of airline pilots, engineers, flight crew etc.

The whole UK package holiday industry is based on sending 50,000 British holiday reps to Europe every year on temporary contracts (which interestingly undercut local wage rates and put local employers and businesses at a disadvantage). Supporting the holiday industry are also thousands of hospitality workers, bar staff, instructors etc.

There are employees working for European and international companies whose future job prospects have been removed by Brexit. Anyone working in a company whose job requires regular European travel, or relocation to HQ in say Sweden or Germany, is now disadvantaged compared with their European colleagues.

Finally, there are thousands of British citizens who are 'living' in the UK but who actually spend half of the year living abroad, mostly in Spain, Portugal and France. By only staying for a maximum of 90 days at a time, they circumvent the EU country's registration and tax laws.

Surely Leave voters have answered the problem and there will now be jobs and housing for all.

jasjas1973 Would a little bit of paper work have put you off ?

@Hesta54 a little bit of paperwork put a lot of people off. Made them feel excluded unless they had the determination my family had. Made them feel like it wasn't an option.
Guess you are happy for us to go back to that.

That 'why don't you know?' retort is a variant on 'I know you are you said you are but what am I?' and deflects the fact that leavers can't say what lies the remainers told.

No it isn't

We were told we would have an emergency budget THE DAY AFTER voting to leave in which there would be immediate emergency tax rises.

That was a lie. It was not the only one.

and as we 'lost' we don't have to justify the leave campaign.

Eh? come again? There's no need to justify anything on the remain side as remain lost? Odd logic.

bellinisurge Yes, if you really want to come it won’t put you off, just looking to control unskilled FOM,

"We were told we would have an emergency budget THE DAY AFTER voting to leave in which there would be immediate emergency tax rises."
No one told me that. Some people made those kind of noises. I ignored them and voted Remain.
Did you and everyone else ignore the bullshit on the bus?

No, i worked in SA and needed a lot of paper! it didn't stop all the brickies in the 80's going to West Germany either, when our economy was shit and we undercut all the German brickies!

But the world has moved on e.g. if a German heart specialist can work very easily in and out of Sweden or have to go through an arbitrary immigration system to work at the Harefield... where will he go? and who will lose out?
No language issues for a German working Sweden either.

We already had the scope to manage unskilled FOM. We chose not to. Nothing to do with the EU. That was our sovereign call.

bellinisurge How, please don’t use the 3 month rule, anybody from the EU can come to live here tomorrow and we can’t do a thing about it,

Unfortunately it is not a 'little bit of paperwork'. For someone getting a visa for a holiday one a year, you might accept an hour or more doing 'paperwork' but for those who travel regularly as proposed by Havana,
having to do a couple of hours paperwork a week significantly undermines your ability to do a job.
There is a video about a NI truck driver who delivers Beef (IIRC) who leaves NI early in a morning , ferry to Holyhead, then Dover Calais which is possible now in his allowable 'driving time'. Hold ups due to customs clearance and any extra paperwork needed for driving permits make the timing near impossible, meaning a 1 day trip extends to over 2 days. Representing a massive pay cut.

Not within our existing legal framework we don't. We chose to have an open welfare system and no id cards. We chose not to operate the controls available because a) it is antithetical to our ideas of an open society and welfare system and b) it costs everyone a lot of money. How many times do we need to say this?

@Hesta54 - so, the three month rule is bollocks is it?

Hesta54 the other issue is that brexit has ruined the UK's rep as a welcoming can do country for EU migrants esp as many eastern EU countries are doing very well and are doing all they can to limit skilled workers moving abroad.

It was such a crying shame when i heard that the EU stroke specialist nurses that cared for my late mum, had gone back to their respective countries.

No one told me that.

eh?

George Osbourne and Alaistair Darling told us we'd have an emergency budget with £30BN kn tax rises.... but if you were too busy focusing on the bus.......

{anybody from the EU can come to live here tomorrow and we can’t do a thing about it,}
And whose fault is this then?

1tisILeClerc That part is free movement of goods which I don’t think anybody has a problem with, they could always drop a trailer and a different diver pick up at either end

1tisILeClerc Not mine, I just live with the affects

One of the Eastern EU countries is suffering from too many young workers moving elsewhere and is proposing a 5 year time limit where it's citizens must return 'home'.
The NHS will be totally stuffed if the UK repatriates all those that have retired to Spain and France.

@badlydrawnperson - I focused not on the stupid fucking bus - which only an idiot would believe- but the fact that our economy can't handle a No Deal situation. That's why I voted Remain.
In case you haven't noticed, we haven't left yet.

Tabatha and Freddie will still be able to have their gap year

It's weird, isn't it, this idea that people are concerned about loss of FOM only because it means a loss for their privileged selves or their privileged offspring.

Does no one remember Auf Wiedersehn, Pet?

And my nephew, who is a barber of working-class stock, didn't go to uni and would have no use for a gap year even if he had the opportunity, has used his FOM to work in a couple of other EU countries.

In any case, don't gap-year people tend to go to South-East Asia and Australia and the like rather than the rest of the EU?