Is there really a majority for ending freedom of movement?

[Figmentofmyimagination]

To me, the worst thing about Brexit is the removal of freedom of movement rights from UK workers, especially young workers. We've introduced the highest university fees in the western world, made housing inaccessible to anyone without access to the bank of mum and dad and now we are removing free movement rights.

What is driving this desire to limit the life chances of young people?

{1tisILeClerc Not mine, I just live with the affects}
WRONG ANSWER! You are 'blaming' someone else. Rather than pathetically whinging about it you should be hammering the local council/MP/government and DEMANDING that the issue gets resolved.
You have to work for things in life, not expect it to be handed to you. This is why many 'immigrants' are successful, they understand it will be hard graft to get started.
You are perhaps getting to part of the reason that the UK is suffering, the strange sense of 'entitlement'.
I can assure you the Eastern Europeans who come to Britain to do shit jobs would much prefer to stay with their friends and families but to make a living in countries with poor or non existent 'social care' they know they have to make the effort.

We were told we would have an emergency budget THE DAY AFTER voting to leave in which there would be immediate emergency tax rises.

This is a lie. Another leave lie. Leave weaponised Osborne’s statement calling it a “punishment budget”.

He did say ‘almost immediately’ but not ‘THE NEXT DAY’.

His predictions have and are materialising. The emergency budget was not required because other steps were taken. Brexit is costing the UK an enormous amount of money and this will be reflected in budgets for years to come, it just might not be expressed as such.

1tisILeClerc Oh come on, how do they enforce that? Do they send out people to drag you back home if you outstay your time, mind you I would imagine that many countries must be fed up with paying to train their people, then they bugger off.

1tisILeClerc Don’t you think I have been ?

That part is free movement of goods which I don’t think anybody has a problem with, they could always drop a trailer and a different diver pick up at either end

you cannot pick an choose the 4 freedoms and that is the balance to be made.
I think the benefits out weigh the disadvantages, remember its the Gov that stopped the relief money provided to areas most affected by migration.
Its also interesting/worrying that many areas not affected by migration, voted Leave

please don’t use the 3 month rule, anybody from the EU can come to live here tomorrow and we can’t do a thing about it,

The 3-month rule is not about who can or cannot come to the UK. It's about what happens after they arrive. They have 3 months in which to find a job or otherwise show that they can support themselves - but since the UK chooses not to enforce this rule few people are ever asked to leave.

'We can't do a thing about it' - other than follow the current EU rules, check that work contracts meet minimum wage and working time regulations, check that tax is being paid etc. All issues that the UK could tackle but chooses not to.

We chose not to operate the controls available because a) it is antithetical to our ideas of an open society and welfare system and b) it costs everyone a lot of money. How many times do we need to say this?

But post-Brexit, the UK will be operating these controls. Non-EU citizens in the UK are currently subject to extremely strict controls and quotas and the same controls are proposed for EU citizens after 2020. E.g. Minimum salary levels, minimum qualifications and experience, payment of a 'health premium' in order to qualify for NHS treatment (despite already paying through their income tax), requirement for job offers, employers needing to show that no local staff are available etc.

The UK will be implementing these controls post-Brexit, so why have they not been exercised previously?

1tisILeClerc It just seems, no EU, no FOM,

Why do you think there were mass emigrations from Ireland, Scotland and Wales for example? Apart from the political balls up, many left Ireland because they would starve to death if they stayed.
When Europeans were stomping across America to find a new and better life, it was damn hard and many died in the process. Of course it is now pretty hypocritical that modern USA, founded by immigrants is so 'anti immigrant'.

Havanananana Don’t mention the 3 month rule, ok I’ll just mention it, hardly any nation in the EU, uses that rule,
Check min wage etc, easy to get around with Zero hour contracts or day work

{1tisILeClerc Oh come on, how do they enforce that?}
I believe it is being discussed in their parliament currently.
MANY parts of the world are 'suffering' from shortages of young energetic trained workers.
Maybe some in the UK would be better informed if they stop 'reading' the tabloid press and look beyond the end of their road.

The suggestion that, post Brexit, UK workers need just fill in a piece of paper and - bingo - off they go, misses the point that many jobs on offer in Europe are open only to EU citizens. For very practical reasons.

Check min wage etc, easy to get around with Zero hour contracts or day work

Which is a national government's responsibility to sort out.

1tisILeClerc Maybe there is a reason they are anti immigrant, the world is a smaller place now with travel easily obtainable, with many economic migrants from poor countries putting pressure on low skilled work force, many manufacturing jobs have been moved aboard where hourly rates are a fraction of local rates, which local people could not live on

Hesta Brexit isn't going to change that, even pro brexit Dyson has moved that abroad.

DarlingNikita Yes, but most native people trying to live and raise a family with mortgage can’t live on them contracts, so hence the work is for immigrants only that live together in large groups and share costs, if they were not available to take the work, maybe, just like a few years ago they would be proper jobs for local people just tying to make a live

While many parts of the EU don't actually enforce the 3 month rule 'to the letter' I am pretty sure that if you were disruptive/antisocial or needed healthcare then questions would be asked and your position would be reviewed.

Hesta54

Don’t mention the 3 month rule, ok I’ll just mention it, hardly any nation in the EU, uses that rule,

I have lived and worked in several EU countries. All required registration within 48 hours. In all cases the rule was strictly enforced - I have more than once had tax officials and the local police visit my place of work to ensure that everyone was working legally. It is impossible to get housing, a driving license, health treatment or a permanent job if your paperwork is not in order.

Check min wage etc, easy to get around with Zero hour contracts or day work

Which brings us neatly back to the UK's lack of checks and controls - a state of affairs that also adversely affects British workers and which Brexit will do nothing to improve.

The "lack of checks and controls" is a choice. Your view might be that this is a negative. Other people think differently.

Hesta54
I am not necessarily disagreeing with you. GLOBALLY there are many things that need to happen. If you ignore 'domestic' activity, with mechanisation and robots doing many jobs faster and better it could be argued that as 'average' person should only need to work say 30 hours per week. Say, 4 days. Rejigging the economies worldwide so that this could be made possible would be a herculean task but rather than attempting it, some are forced to work silly hours and some have no employment at all.
While this may seem fanciful there is a fair degree of truth in it.

What is driving this desire to limit the life chances of young people

People like parents in law. They live within 5 miles of where they grew up. Most of their relatives do the same. DH was the only one in his family to move away to Uni. That side of the family wouldn't move 20 miles from "home" never mind to another country. It's a totally alien concept to them.

So on the freedom of movement thing, they are only seeing it one way. They're seeing the young Poles and Spaniards working in the bars and restaurants. it wouldn't occur to them that young British people have the same opportunities as it's so far out of their experience.

A huge swathe of the country has a similar outlook and does not see working overseas or studying overseas as anything they, or anyone they know, would ever do.

Havanananana Well maybe if the governments had tried harder then we wouldn’t be on the verge of Brexit, but neither Labour,conservatives, lib, have done anything about, because they weren’t listening to concerns of ordinary people and when challenged calls an elderly lady a bigot live on telly. I don’t mind staying in the EU, if something was done about FOM

{The "lack of checks and controls" is a choice. Your view might be that this is a negative. Other people think differently.}

While excessive regulation would be bad, not having enough is equally bad.
A responsible government who is properly informed by ID cards and registration of where people live SHOULD be ensuring that doctors/schools/transport are sufficient for each location. The fact that the UK government don't really care about this is not to fault of the EU. In fact the EU schemes to help deprived areas is a counter to the UK government. Westminster even held back EU funding destined for parts of Wales a few years back.

MacarenaFerreiro Yes, and is their anything wrong with that? Different people have different views, there is nothing wrong with controlled immigration via job based or visitor based visa system, it just seems to a lot of people that FOM is forced on them to take without any control and feel powerless about it, esp when your family and previous family have lived in the same area for generations and the area is changing, not in a good way, your job prospects are less, housing harder to come buy, can't get in at the doctors etc you feel aggrieved at those that are causing the problems, even thou it’s not their fault, it’s the system FOM

1tisILeClerc I think I’d cards are fantastic idea and every one should have one, would make life easier at times

you obviously want a much more interventionist government than I do!

knowing how many people live in an area to inform the level of public service provision does not require that the government collects and retains extensive levels of personal data about those people.