Is there really a majority for ending freedom of movement?

[Figmentofmyimagination]

To me, the worst thing about Brexit is the removal of freedom of movement rights from UK workers, especially young workers. We've introduced the highest university fees in the western world, made housing inaccessible to anyone without access to the bank of mum and dad and now we are removing free movement rights.

What is driving this desire to limit the life chances of young people?

and you know what... I don't care one whit anymore that you are "pissed off" anymore. If you hadn't been constantly point scoring then I might have been, but I'm not any longer. since you aren't interested in having a discussion seriously, well then neither am I

There was a recent stat on radio 5 that in 2015, 1 in 10 council/ housing association house was lived in by Immigrants, over 400,000 houses, you can see why some native people might get upset if they are declined or on a long waiting list,
I think most people accept that there will always be a need for job based immigration, but it should be controlled way better, and make sure the existing infrastructure ( housing, Doctors etc ) can accommodate the rise in numbers, The government must have control otherwise how can they plan when they don’t know what population numbers will be ( for schools, housing etc )
I think certain people’s attitudes would be very different on here if all the immigration was at the top end rather than the low skilled end,
The 3 month rule is largely not enforced across the EU and would only work if every EU citizen coming in the U.K. was stopped at the border and full details taken, with FOM that doesn’t happen in or out,
A lot of local factories nearby are now run by agencies, run by Eastern European’s and only using their own people, who work on a day to day basis, they live in large groups in 2-3 bed houses, How can a local person trying to make a life raising a family with mortgage compete, yes I know it’s not the immigrants fault it’s the bosses, but FOM allows this to happen.

@1tisILeClerc
Unfortunately the fact that people can vote to do things that make other people suffer is a fact of life in democracies.

I could make many of the same observations about people who have ever voted Tory, because in my opinion, there can be no reason for it (unless you are a billionaire member of the aristocracy, possibly).

Unlike you, I accept that other people take a different view, however unpalatable and I don't make ridiculous claims like suggesting Tory voters have punched me in the face (even though it sometimes feels like it).

I don't go around asking people why they voted Tory and then ridiculing their responses or dismissing them as irrational racists because it's pointless - and it certainly isn't going to stop them voting Tory.

There was a recent stat on radio 5 that in 2015, 1 in 10 council/ housing association house was lived in by Immigrants, over 400,000 houses, you can see why some native people might get upset if they are declined or on a long waiting list Hang on? I thought all of this immigration was good for the country - with them being net tax contributers and all that? And yet they can't even afford to privately rent or buy! Yes - that is great for our country! If we'd only had a points based system in the first place, Brexit would never had happened.

badlydrawnperson
Just send me the money and call it quits. You obviously can't articulate why you voted to make the whole of Europe poorer.

To me, the issue with freedom of movement is that objections are always based on perceptions (however valid or mistaken) of how things are - right now - with zero sense of what the future might hold.

People are so used to living in a prosperous and reliable economy that they cannot any longer conceive of a future in which we - and our children - are not prosperous and secure and that our children might actually want the flexibility to relocate, even if they don't have earning capacity above whatever the new earnings threshold in these EU countries is likely to be (e.g. £35k per annum), or a specialist skill on an immigration skills list.

Ours is an economy built largely on consumer spending and optimism, shored up by housing "equity" and credit card debt. And we depend on our currency remaining stable relative to other currencies.

So many people imagine freedom of movement rights only being exercised by Tabithas and Freddies on their gap year.

There is extraordinary complacency whenever this issue is raised, if ever. People like the PP who responded that she and her husband voted to leave the EU even though they have paid off their mortgage and have a nice house etc seem to have no awareness of freedom of movement in any other frame of reference than tabloid racism.

Who do we think we are, that we can curtail these rights with so little regard for those most likely to be adversely affected? It is an outrageous act of arrogance and selfishness for which we can expect to be blamed.

Just send me the money and call it quits. You obviously can't articulate why you voted to make the whole of Europe poorer.

Oh yes, you are right, you really have illustrated why you are so superior and more important than me, thanks for showing me how invalid my views are and how much I should bow down to you.

Figmentofmyimagination FOM from the U.K. is mainly used for holidays, are very small percentage of U.K. people ( 1% ) use FOM to live and work in the EU, and large percentage or retirees in Southern Europe,
why should a small percentage of people hold sway over the other 99%,
Tabatha and Freddie will still be able to have their gap year, unless the EU are going to stop us visiting and holidaying in Europe,
Why can’t you accept that not all FOM is good for everybody

Hesta that's the point though isn't it. You are entirely focused on the here and now, with no consideration of the future value of the rights you are removing.

Well badlydrawnperson has voted so that s(he) can now go and live in a crappy caravan in Norfolk, picking veg while well paid executives can come to the UK and set up 'sweatshops' using cheap UK labour as the ERG have already said that workers rights and other 'benefits' will be eroded. Effectively 'banning' Eastern European cheap labour will force this. Of course the fact that the value of the Pound has fallen and will most likely continue to fall post April won't help matters, especially for the poor.

FoM has next to nothing to do with holidays, it is the RIGHT to be able to live and work anywhere in the EU.

Ah yes, the gap yah bollocks. Was waiting for that stupid load of crap to be trotted out.
I'm old. I remember life before FOM. I come from a family that has lived and worked abroad because that's what many of us did. We are an ordinary family- my dad grew up in abject poverty in the Great Depression and my mum was an immigrant worker . It was bloody difficult to manage without much money or connections . We had neither. It was only because we had the drive and curiosity to do it. It simply wasn't an option for people of our economic sphere. It is now - or was with FOM. Why is that a bad thing? And what the fuck does it have to do with gap yah?

Figmentofmyimagination It’s not me making the rules they only option the EU gives us is obey 100% or nothing, we could just do with some middle ground, of course I have I don’t want to stop the privileged minority who take advantage through wealth or Education of using FOM at the same time I don’t want it affecting or to disadvantage native people, just looking for some common ground,

Yes, I know FOM is not for holidays, it just makes border crossing easier

@Hesta54 - FOM lets ordinary people work abroad. If you think it's just for rich people, you are mistaken. I'm sorry if you were sold the lie that FOM is just for the rich. But it was a lie.
FOM is a great leveller and a force for good.

*Hesta" Why do you assume that freedom of movement rights in the future might only have been exercised by a privileged minority with wealth or education? Think about the economic shocks of the past. There is no reason to assume that we are immune - or that the pound will always hold its own.

bellinisurge Really, I thought it was just for the rich, Thank you,
Just take out the bits you want to read

That 'why don't you know?' retort is a variant on 'I know you are you said you are but what am I?' and deflects the fact that leavers can't say what lies the remainers told. Whereas remainers can identify the lies Brexiters told and as we 'lost' we don't have to justify the leave campaign.

As far as I can tell by voting to end freedom of movement Brexiters have left themselves in a locked room with loads of angry people who want to get off it easily (and think they are stupid and, yep, racist too).

FOM allows scientists, doctors, engineers etc to move freely around the EU, this allows greater innovation in all fields and that benefits the 99% look at our aero, pharma, universities and engineering sectors the UK and Europe punches way above what any individual European country could ever do.

However, FOM also imposes strains on housing, schools and health services, its crazy not to acknowledge this and i blame the UK gov deciding that whilst they will use private health and education, the rest of us can have sub schooling, housing and NHS.

Looking at the immigration figures post 2016, immigration is still around 350k, eu vastly out numbered by RoW migrants, for whom its far harder to return home due to cost and distance, look how easy it is for EU workers to return home?

I would love to see a breakdown of socio economic status of the people who are using FOM to leave the UK and work elsewhere in Europe. I'll bet it is mainly wealthier people, or their relatives

You don't know much about FOM, then, do you?

bellinisurge Sarcasm, I know how it’s effected many ordinary people in and around where I live

FoM gave me the right to work anywhere in Europe easily which I did, and as I live in the UK, pay my taxes to the UK. INWARD INVESTMENT as I paid both tax, and spent most of my earned money in UK shops.

@Hesta54 - I'm an ordinary person. Just because I'm not the same as you doesn't mean I'm not.

So are we reiterating the tired old argument that leave voters are racist? Who want to get rid of foreigners because they’re taking our jobs (no ones said it but it’s certainly implied that leavers are in low paid jobs and therefore uneducated) and social housing?

I spoke to a lot of leavers in the run up to the referendum. All but one of them said their reason for voting leave was because of immigration. Some of those leavers were poor, most were not. There are plenty or racist middle income earners who voted leave.