Is there really a majority for ending freedom of movement?

[Figmentofmyimagination]

To me, the worst thing about Brexit is the removal of freedom of movement rights from UK workers, especially young workers. We've introduced the highest university fees in the western world, made housing inaccessible to anyone without access to the bank of mum and dad and now we are removing free movement rights.

What is driving this desire to limit the life chances of young people?

Here is a link to the directive about FOM, you can read for yourself.
www.europarl.europa.eu/factsheets/en/sheet/41/free-movement-of-workers

So are we reiterating the tired old argument that leave voters are racist? Who want to get rid of foreigners because they’re taking our jobs (no ones said it but it’s certainly implied that leavers are in low paid jobs and therefore uneducated) and social housing?

My husband and I voted leave and own our home outright ( never lived in social housing). Both educated ( goodness who would have thought it) and both of us have recent
immigrants in our family tree.

Don’t want to piss on your chips but I know plenty of professional from ethnic minorities who voted out.

I completely agree with you, OP. I fear for my DD's future and to a lesser extent, my own. I really hope we won't be stupid enough to let the corporatist "elite" erode our education, healthcare, food safety, employment rights and environmental protection in the name of trade deals with the US and China.

I don't know if a majority of Brits would vote for an end to free movement, but I doubt that a majority of young people would.

I believe that - like much of the detail of the EU - most people in the UK don't understand what freedom of movement really means, and simply know it as the mechanism by which one-legged roofers and Big Issue sellers are able to enter the UK legally

I'd reckon that if there had been a vote on each different major strand of our relationship with the EU, Freedom of Movement would have been the one with the clearest majority to leave

Net migration from the EU was 87,000 last year (compared to over 200k non-EU migration)

I am sure if your aspirations in life are to be crammed in a caravan with a dozen strangers or beg on the streets for food then it would be relatively easy to live in most of Europe but to have access to healthcare and have a job then you need ID papers of some sort. It is reported that 'gangmasters' exploit workers from the EU particularly and falsify records and the police are reluctant to actually deal with the lawbreakers, many of whom are British farmers who conveniently hire others to do the 'dirty work'. I don't think any country has a 'childcatcher' like in Chittychittybangbang going around collecting people, although the UK Home office with their 'adverts' on vans trying to get people to 'shop' possible illegal immigrants is more than a bit of a stain on Mrs May.

So are we reiterating the tired old argument that leave voters are racist?

No one has declared that 'all leave voters are racist'. However, most racists did vote Leave, however tired you find that argument.

It is quite difficult to find any 'Leave' voter to say why they voted that way based on anything that has not been proven to be a lie.

@OlennasWimple Yes, net EU immigration fell sharply following the referendum, to a 5 year low. What was your point?

@1tisILeClerc

It is quite difficult to find any remain contributor who isn't sneering at leave voters in one way or another. Both sides told a lot of lies.

You will find what you look for if you spend your time in an echo chamber.

most racists did vote Leave, however tired you find that argument.

This is a typically ridiculous assertion based on zero evidence, quoted by people who blather on about 'lies" and "the facts" and "evidence".

It's pretty much impossible to know and is based, in fact on a mixture of prejudice and opinion.

It's a ridiculous and pointless soundbite intended to nothing more than imply all leave voters are racists without having to actually say it.

Shine, EU migrants to the UK are net contributers to the exchequer

The majority of EU migrants I know have come here to work and do vital jobs that contribute to their communities and the economy. They have not come to scrounge or take anyone’s jobs. Immigration will not stop with by ending FOM it will just come from outside the EU because we still need people to do the jobs that British people do not want to do.

Still trying to find a 'Leave' voter who isn't either racist or incapable of rational thought. Surely one or two out of a supposed 17.4 million isn't asking too much?
I am not 'sneering' but I do want compensation from the 'Leavers' for the massive losses I have suffered and the stress caused.
Having just read the latest information published this morning for EU citizens in the UK and UK citizens in the EU, it is STILL a load of mealy mouthed crap with expressions like 'probably' and 'almost as things are now'.

Badlydrawn, what lies were told by remain?

Badlydrawn - enough with the sneering

My post about net migration was in response to this question from "Shinesweet": "How many are seriously from this country going to live abroad compared to the numbers that have come to this country."

Badlydrawn, what lies were told by remain?

Why don't you know?

I keep getting told about that Bus all the time and all the other lies - why don't you know?

You aren't seriously saying there were no lies in the remain campaign are you?

Still trying to find a 'Leave' voter who isn't either racist or incapable of rational thought.

As defined by you. That will always be a self-fulfilling prophecy, won't it?

Imissgmichael the shutting the door behind you phenomenon - a variant on I'm all right Jack ...

You aren't seriously saying there were no lies in the remain campaign are you?

Yes.

badlydrawnperson
You could make a small effort in finding a valid reason to 'Leave' that isn't just a soundbite or has been shown to be untrue. So far the only ones that have any validity are racism and a desire for passports with blue covers.
Rational thought follows a progression that others can understand.
It would be appreciated if so called 'Leavers' could justify a reason for having negatively impacted practically everyone in Europe.
If I saw you in the street and punched you in the face or stole your purse, you would like a better excuse than 'I just felt like it'.

I voted remain but wished we could stop FOM for multiple reasons.

If I saw you in the street and punched you in the face or stole your purse, you would like a better excuse than 'I just felt like it'.

What a ridiculous analogy.

In fact I'd be very surprised to get any rational explanation in the circumstances of street robbery you describe, but that's hardly relevant .

We had a referendum. People were entitled to vote in one of two ways.
What you choose to believe that the motivations and mental capacity of every single one of the people who voted leave is your choice - as I said, you will find what you look for.

You have made it abundantly clear that there is no conceivably acceptable reason anyone could have for voting leave so there's really not a lot of point in offering reasons so you can tell me am, as you suspected, a racist with no capacity for logical thought.

It's pointless isn't it?

@badlydrawnperson. Got it in one! "Debating" with some of these folk is essentially pointless because there is no explanation they will accept as valid. Thread after thread has gone this way.

It is not the best analogy perhaps but since 'Leavers' have literally taken several thousand pounds out of my bank account and are making my life more difficult by reducing my ability to move for work I feel quite justified in being more than a bit pissed off by people who can't or won't say why they voted to leave.

LouiseCollins28
For over 2 years there has been a continual stream of 'we won, get over it', which is not a debate at all. At least people who voted Remain can usually give properly evaluated and referenced answers.