Is it me or is no Brexit looking a whole lot more likely tonight?

[Bearbehind]

If no deal is pretty much off the table following the parliamentary votes tonight then the choice is ‘shit deal’ or no Brexit.

It’s clear which Remainers would prefer but what about Leavers?

The arrogance and lack of understanding of the view points and experiences about large swathes of the uk population is the reason the remain side lost in the first place. I see nothing has changed

@deadbudgie, are these concerns relating to people’s income and opoortunities? If they are, those with the least are going to suffer under a Brexit the most as you must know.

If they are, those with the least are going to suffer under a Brexit the most as you must know.

Don't expect Johnson, Gove or Farage to come to your assistance either.

If I didn't give a toss about other people and how a fucked up economy would affect them I would have voted Leave. After all, I'm a prepper and my entire family is either entitled to Irish passports or able to go in the Irish Foreign Births Register. No Deal will bring chaos and I get to use all my prepper skills and stores. I am literally, "alright, Jack".
But I didn't because I care about all sorts of things: protecting the GFA, keeping people fed and safe, ensuring their basic rights can't be taken off them for political expediency, addressing the shortcomings of the EU as a member state. So I voted Remain.
But now? Fuck 'em. I'm still "alright, Jack". Hopefully Parliament will avoid the madness of No Deal. Otherwise no longer give much of a shit how much Brexit will bring suffering to its voters. They knew what they were voting for.

Toga it doesn’t really matter what the reality is in a way (although no one actually knows). The point is is people’s perceptions. Most of the remain arguments centred around effects in the pound, stock markets, financial services, universities,research etc. Now to large proportions of the population it was easy to blame cheap foreign labour taking “their” jobs, lack of housing on immigrants coming into the country etc. Nothing in the remain agenda addresses these perceptions. The leave campaign did. The remain argument looked at issues that had no resonance with large parts of the population. They failed to read the mood of the public outside London/high income brackets.once again the common man felt ignored. Now I voted leave for very different reasons as did many others (personally I see the EU as encompassing too many cultures, economies, political persuasions and legal systems to operate effectively for everyone. If it was still made up of the original member states of the EEA with the same original remit I probably wouldn’t have such an issue although we would still be faced with the issue of working across the common law/civil law divide. But that’s by the by. I would vote leave again tomorrow. Brexit is largely happening because remain fucked up theirs one chance campaign they don’t get to keep having another go til they get it right!

The remain campaign was poor.

We have now negotiated a deal so we have a concrete idea of what Brexit will look like. No deal Brexit is a very scary option.

Another referendum to vote on clear options rather than speculation seems a reasonable option - although I don't like the idea of referenda in principle. That is how negotiations work. In Parliament issues are voted on multiple times - that is how democracy works.

You can't make decisions based on 'we won you lost' or 'you were rubbish serves you right'.

Anyone seen the Kent report Council?. Hardly counts as Project Fear. This is Leaver territory, after all. Project Reality, more like. I predict more and more reports of a similar nature over the next few days to show MPs exactly what is at stake.

There's a thread about it and all the posters are saying 'project fear' and 'millennium big'.

So depressing.

Is there? Link please so I can satisfy their prejudices about Remoaners.

@deadbudgie

You don’t vote once and then never vote again. That’s the opposite of democracy.

By your logic, we shouldn’t have even had the 2016 referendum; the 1975 one should have been the definitive result according to your own stance.

Don’t accept that? No, I didn’t think so.

Democracy is fluid. Things change. People vote often.

Deadbudgie
If there was someone standing in your high street giving out real £20 notes would you take one or would you wonder what the 'catch' is?
The fact that you and the majority of 'Leave' voters don't seem to be able to understand that the problems the UK faced were nothing to do with the EU says an awful lot about you.
Any form of Brexit will trash any plans to 'improve' the UK as the majority of government time will be spent 'firefighting' aspects of Brexit that just haven't occurred to them yet.
Like Bellinisurge, if it wasn't for having many family and friends in the UK I would wish that the UK would crash out 'instantly' on March 29th just so I could watch the mayhem on TV.

So what you are saying is that the leave campaign pandered to people's prejudices in order to achieve Brexit.

I agree.

Telling people they are right is very powerful, its why Brexit and Trump won, its much more powerful than using actual facts.

But then you've got to wonder what is in it for the people running the campaigns.

{But then you've got to wonder what is in it for the people running the campaigns.}
You don't need to wonder. 'Betting' on currency fluctuations is earning many of them a pretty packet at the moment. Some take it a stage further to the 'disaster capitalist' arena where a major crash, financially will see some gaining many millions, and then the opportunity to buy companies in the UK at a knock down price a while later.
All it takes is some money to 'seed' the operation, and dealings with others in low places.

Don't forget that there are many NDAs and the cabinet refusing to investigate or at least drag their heals over any inquiry.

I’m really not sure what anyone’s responses have to do with what I’ve said. Mind you, that’s the ardent remainers all over, not actually listening to what people are saying but just keep shouting their mantra louder (normally including the word thick).

Re the £20 question, no of course I wouldn’t just take £20 off someone in the street without asking serious questions. I’m assuming this is an attempt to reference some number on the bus! Well I didn’t pay attention to that either I did my own research into the political, cultural, economic and legal positions on a long term basis for and against and decided leave was best for the country in the long term, in my opinion. That is what votes are, opinions.

People were free to make their own judgements. Although I voted leave and we got what I think was the right result, I think there are many people on both sides who hadn’t got a clue what they were voting for. In all honesty part of me thinks this was too complicated an issue for a referendum. But then the vested interests of the people who would otherwise have been taking that decision would never have allowed us to leave.

Anyone thinking this issue is clear cut with only one “right” answer is delusional at best. There are many valid arguments on both sides and it was left to people to inform themselves and decide which side they were happy to sit. People were failed by both leave and remain campaigns.

I'm sorry Dead but saying people who voted to remain didn't know what they were voting for is complete tosh. They voted for things to stay as they are. The leave vote was for a variety of Leave flavours not defined at the point of voting. The Leave voters basically decided to redecorate the lounge coz they didn't like the colour, but there was no though or consensus as to the new colour - who would be crazy enough to allow that?

*thought not though, obv.

Listening @Deadbudgie . Hearing bollocks. Pointing it out. Doesn't make me evil and undemocratic.
Is this really all about hurt feelings? Seriously?

Jason, they were also voting for an uncertain future, one in which no one knew how the EU would change and the different ways in which it would affect their lives if we were to remain. The EU of today and it’s impact is obviously very very different to the position 40 years ago and it’s not unreasonable to expect it will be very different in 40 years time. To many the change which has occurred during this time was unforseeable and untenable, hence many who voted in in the 70s now voted out.

All anyone could do, on either side is look to past and present to try and guess what the future held. Neither side were actually voting for the current position in reality. Both were voting for uncertain futures.

Nice Bellini. What about the 16 million remain bottler who will also be ducked over. Do you say fuck em to them too??

Voters fucked over. Apologies, far thumbs

@Thegirlinthefireplace , at this point, I only care about taking care of my family. I'm sorry we are all being dragged down into this but my compassion ended when people who are going to be the most shafted voted Leave.

Lucky not everyone feels that way.

Dead Both were voting for uncertain futures.
More tosh I'm afraid. Voting for things to carry on with a say on how things develop, with life proceeding as normal is nothing like changing to a new 'unknown' outcome. Your attempt at equivalence is astounding considering the well structured sentences you use.

Agreed. Given our opt outs and our "ever closer union" opt out it's safe to say remain we're voting for "status quo"

@Thegirlinthefireplace I have been on MN Brexit and Prepper threads regularly over the past few months trying to give people sensible budget friendly non-scary advice about getting extra bits in to prepare for an economic hit. If people of either stripe still want to stick their head in the sand and believe in unicorns/believe there is nothing they can do, I can't help them any more.
I will continue to post sensible non scary budget friendly advice on here as well as expressing my views on Brexit. The rest is up to other people. Frankly, I think I've been a tiny bit of use to a couple of strangers on the internet. Not sure what else I can do.