Any Brexiters who have changed your minds....?

[onlyconnect]

If you voted Brexit but would now like to remain, could you call loudly for a second referendum please?
I'm a remainer and see the obvious problems with remainers asking for a second referendum but if former Brexiters were to ask, it would have legitimacy surely.

I visited the Sultan of Brunei's palace many years ago when he had asked Michael Jackson to do a private gig for him. The opulence was mindblowing, carpets with gold thread woven into it, the 'works'.
In the streets outside were beggars on many street corners, the contrast couldn't have been greater.

{I haven't changed my mind and want to leave with "no deal". There is no dealing to be done}
That is of course your democratic right, however even 'no deal' actually needs discussing, therefore being a deal of sorts.
In a divorce, one partner 'goes away'. That is the first step. Who gets to look after the kids? That is the first element of a 'deal'. Sorting out what were joint finances and responsibilities, these are all elements of a 'no deal'. An extreme where one partner takes their own life is a 'true' no deal as obviously there is no possible discussion. You could argue that the one 'departing' has made all the decisions.
The UK leaving the EU is of course infinitely more complicated as there are so many legal treaties involved. The 'no deal' that is very real will be about as extreme as is possible and must be avoided. Fortunately there is no suggestion that I as one of the million or so Brits in the EU, or the 3 million or so EU citizens in the UK would be deported, but even now this is not legally binding with the ink dried but both sides have said they will not take the route of 'persecution'.

Well I asked the question and got an answer so thanks for that. I am not going to try to persuade anyone that their opinion is wrong, it's what they believe. What worries me is that no one seems to have any idea of what they want instead. Even if these wonderful easiest deals in history do appear and the whole of the rest of the world is rushing to trade with us, what would happen to the wealth it brought with it? Would it lead to more investment in the north and west, or would it be yet more tax cuts for the wealthy? I have little expectation that it would be anything but another hand out for the already rich.

"We want out."

Evidently even only a small majority of hard line brexiteers want out with no deal.

You voted in protest in a binary vote where individual votes counted. f

So ignorant and stupid.

@MrsGollach

What were you protesting about?

"We want out."

Another great sound bite.

More to the point, what do you hope to see in say 5 years time or ten years time?

More austerity, still no investment? Or a decently funded health service, and education service, decent work, or what? And how likely are the current crop of politicians going to deliver whatever it is?

"Cutting off the nose to spite the face" is an expression to describe a needlessly self-destructive over-reaction to a problem: “Don't cut off your nose to spite your face" is a warning against acting out of pique, or against pursuing revenge in a way that would damage oneself more than the object of one's anger.

Don't ask them questions.

Not worth it.

Deluded.

I see the 'vote' as a protest;
The village you live in has a supermarket that pays low wages, and a factory that creates pollution but pays slightly better wages.
Many of the 'protestors' are banging on the doors of the supermarket to complain about low wages.
There is a connection between the two, but it is not strong.

I remember a great post in the days following the Referendum when someone had voted Leave to ‘teach the EU a lesson’ even though there was a significant chance they could their job.
It was some like ‘You haven’t just cut off your nose to spite your face. You’ve packed in your job, shat in your bed and burnt your house down’.

Oh, that reminds me “Short term pain for long term gain”

In the long run we are all dead.

JM Keynes.

1tisILeClerc

I don't happen to believe that portrays the whole picture, almost all the leavers i know down in sunny Cornwall are well off, many are business people, doctors, even an economist (well, got a degree and not outside as female)

The overriding reason seems to be immigration e.g EU workers in local firms, EU firms/labour building Solar farms, these are hi paid jobs and folk don't like it, the reality is local people don't know how to build a Solar farm nor do they want to work night/W.E shifts in local food factories.

Also the cuts to council funding, whilst at the same time CT bills going up each year at 2x rate of inflation (and services still go down hill) has led to a lot of resentment, so when someone says we can spend an extra 12billion on local services/ nhs etc etc people are attracted to to this idea.

In this Corbyn is correct - politicians need to address the concerns of the voters, just because remainers think all this is rubbish is not going to change anyone's mind, scary stories on brexit, just re-enforce each sides view.
Too late now but remain should have been selling the benefits of EU membership, as Thatcher did when she was selling the SM to business and the UK back in the early 90s.

They did sell the benefits of the EU.

Just the leave campaign said we could have all of the benefits and none of the costs. People chose to believe them, rather than the EU itself.

Rephrase that "Remain didn't sell EU membership convincingly"

Just as now they are not explaining the very real downside of leaving the EU, we are still being sold "we can leave and still have the same benefits as before, only without FoM and budget contributions" and people on here and in RL believe it all.

I'll be honest and I think that the remain campaign, whilst not stellar, suffered because of the press portrayal.

Cameron says that the EU has brought peace to Europe, Boris Johnson says leaving won't bring WW3, the Cameron is forever more quoted as saying it will bring WW3 ( appeal to ridicule).

There are lots of other examples.

Despite the falling sales of newspapers, they still set the agenda.

JasJas
Of course the whole picture is far more complicated but on a (predominantly women's) internet chat board (it's own self selecting subset of the UK) writing an all encompassing piece that covers all eventualities is impossible. For a start no one would read it.
The life experience of a small run down 'abandoned' village in Cornwall is nothing like Kensington, and given that those in Cornwall have food and housing and a reasonable income I doubt many would actually want to swap places. Getting the 'far flung' places standard of living up should be the universal goal, but sadly NO government is really prepared to do it effectively.

The leaflet that was distributed at significant cost to all homes was pretty 'accurate' and even handed. It failed massively because to my mind it did not 'say' enough (plenty of pictures, not much text) but the major issue was it did not emphasise what leaving the EU would do. It became 'Project Fear' eventually which as primarily 'remainers' on here will appreciate is pretty much project 'if you leave the EU' reality.
It is far easier to follow 'floppytops' with red buses promising unicorns than the unexciting 'well at least there will be food in the shops tomorrow'.

1tisILeClerc - "The overriding reason seems to be immigration e.g EU workers in local firms, "

Why is the firm importing it's labour force into a high-wage and high cost-of-living economy? Locate the firm in the lower cost country where the workers are coming from.

In my specific case, its a Cornish Pasty factory but it could equally be Stilton cheese or pork pie businesses, firms post brexit are very keen to keep the protected names status.

I'm sure your idea and the subsequent increase in unemployment will be very welcome as firms relocate, not ALL workers are from EU by any means.

Outside You’re very prolific aren’t you? Amazing how you manage this as well as working full time.

{Locate the firm in the lower cost country where the workers are coming from.}
Hands up all who would give up a life on a checkout in Cornwall to work in a coal mine in the Urals?
Most people, given a choice, want to live where they are.
2 or more hours a day commuting into London is not 'life'.
An ideal world, which obviously doesn't exist would be to live where you want, have a job you love that pays well and is 5 minutes stroll from your front door.

Are there any other remainers having second thoughts? I didn't really get the whole "sovereignty" thing but the way these negotiations have gone has made me think they've got a point. If it's damaging to get out now, it will surely only get worse if we stay in an increasingly federalist EU.

I can't see how any remainder would change their minds - all the evidence of what will happen backs up the thought processes prior to the vote. It will be shitter, the only variable is the depth.