Brexiteers, if there was a 'People's Vote' how would you vote?

[millsbynight]

For me? I'd flatly vote No Deal.

Would others vote to stay in the EU or agree to Teresa May's deal?

Everyone I know who voted Leave would still vote Leave (the same goes for those who voted Remain) so I'd be really curious to see what the outcome of a 2nd referendum would generate.

bellinisurge - And in most cases, it takes a few days to get one.

Applying for a work visa is hardly 'stripping' anyone of an 'opportunity to travel'.

Unless the person in question has a criminal record. And that's a positive thing.

KennDodd - "Well I won't be fine and my children won't be fine. I'm losing my job because of Brexit and only UK passports in our house so huge opportunity for travel stripped from my children. That probably is yours and other Leavers fantasy though"

A UK passport allows you to travel all over the world (even North Korea if you are so inclined).
You're losing your job? Really? Do you work for the EU? Nigel? Is that you? Don't worry you'll still get your tax-free pension and be immune from any criminal prosecution for all that you did whilst working for the EU.

Did you give two shits about all those British workers who lost their jobs when factories closed here and opened up in the EU27? Twinings workers for example? There are literally hundreds of other examples. Why should they (or I) care about your job loss due to changing economic circumstances? Go get another job, we have record employment in this country. Who knows, if Brexit reduces immigration then your employment prospects could well improve along with your wages. I have seen a lot more British workers in supermarkets and restaurants recently so maybe that it already happening?

BorisBogtrotter - "Still avoiding answering whether Factory A or Factory B is the most efficient."

Nope because you are begging the question, starting with your own premise in order to prove yourself right. Fallacious."

I posed a simple model whereby there are two factories, factory A and factory B. Both factories produce the same product. Factory A does it all on one site with no long, JIT or otherwise, supply chains. Factory B has long supply chains and moves it's components around a lot.
You refuse to admit that Factory A is, ceteris paribus, the more efficient one. If we can't get this out of the way we can't progress to more complex debate.

AutumnCrow - "Essentially, despite Remainer claims, we are not all going to die because we leave the single market

What a completely fucking idiotic thing to say."

Plenty of Remainers have been saying that people will die due to lack of medicines, lack of medical isotopes and so on. Remainers have said that there will be food shortages, our industries will be trashed, there will be catastrophic damage to our economy and so on.

I don't think characterising that as an "we're all doomed" claim is particularly over-egging the pudding.

I'm still waiting for the punishment budget and the stock market crash. I'm still not £4300 worse off per year and WWIII hasn't started yet either.

"Applying for a work visa is hardly 'stripping' anyone of an 'opportunity to travel'.

Unless the person in question has a criminal record. And that's a positive thing."

But whilst in the EU we can't stop EU criminals coming and living here. Don't you just love the EU?

motheroffourdragons - "Your argument about factories is a daft one tbh.

And you ignore investment required."

Factory A and Factory B already exist and are producing widgets. Which one in more efficient.

Oh you just can't answer can you? You just can't do it because it might give the lie to your belief that all the UK car industry will move to the EU because we dared to vote Leave.

Remain really is like a cult.

motheroffourdragons -"I'd expect Nissan et al to carry on with their proven working efficient model rather than go back to a 1970s one for a relatively small UK domestic market."

Great so you'll admit that production is more likely to move to Japan than the EU. Excellent.

Where is factory A getting it's raw materials from? And if it were truly more cost efficient, why isn't it operating like this already? It's not EU bungs that influence big business, but cold hard profit. See that fecker Dyson for example.

But whilst in the EU we can't stop EU criminals coming and living here

More eurobollox from outside

We can check and refuse entry to anyone deemed to be a security risk or a danger to the public or is likely to commit crime ie persistent offender, that we don't do this very often is a failure on our part.

Cameron actually got a more rigorous deal on crims from the EU

Post EU, the only way we can stop anyone coming here who is a criminal is via pre travel controls, which we aren't going to do.

I rest my case.

Plenty of Remainers have been saying that people will die due to lack of medicines, lack of medical isotopes and so on. Remainers have said that there will be food shortages, our industries will be trashed, there will be catastrophic damage to our economy and so on

Raab and Hancock - both well known Brexitiers said this... more eurobollox, you really are the gift that keeps on giving aren't you lol!

@OutsideInTheGarden

I meet exporters all the time through my job, I've yet to meet one who thinks Brexit will be good for their business, not a single one of them.

@outsideinthegarden^^

Ceteris paribus, hortum tuum plenum est unicornium humilitatem meam.^^

motheroffourdragons - where did I say Factory A holds stock? Factory A uses the same JIT practises as Factory B except no cross Channel journeys or shipping are required. You really are failing to grasp a very simple model and are very reluctant to answer a very simple question on which is more efficient. It's very funny to see you all twisting and turning this way and that to avoid seeing a very simple truth.

Good morning @OutsideInTheGarden .
Your lovely Uk based just in time plans still thriving.
Sounds like communist command economy shit now. Why should people serve Factory A if they have a better more flexible plan? Where does Factory A get its supplies from?

Where does Factory A get its supplies from?

It's from the exporters I visit! Most of them make component parts, usually really high tech cutting edge stuff like specialist blades for turbines or some device that reduces static in aircraft engines.

They ship this stuff all over the world. I think the plan is to replace these companies with artisan jam producers.

I think your plan for factory production assumes one company produces every component in the finished product this simply isnt the case. Companies specialise to a tiny level, you might argue that this is inefficient and company's should make all their components themselves, but they don't and we are where we are.

The factory plan is as I said, begging the question. He starts with a premise that is correct, but sets the paradigms of it.

So ok, factory A is the most efficient.

Why does this prove Japanese car firms will be staying in the UK?

BorisBogtrotter : "So ok, factory A is the most efficient. "

Amazing! About 10 pages to get someone to admit that Factory A is more efficient. That was hard work.

"Why does this prove Japanese car firms will be staying in the UK?"

On it's own it doesn't. However, now that we are agreeing some basics we can move on to look at reasons for the current setup and why silly assertations like "all the UK car industry will just relocate" merely because the UK is leaving the EU are incorrect.

• assertions

"Amazing! About 10 pages to get someone to admit that Factory A is more efficient. That was hard work."

Yet you still don't understand my critique of the point.

"all the UK car industry will just relocate" merely because the UK is leaving the EU are incorrect."

Again, the SSMT and car markers have all addressed the issues with hard brexit and customs union being an issue.

How many firms will continue to invest if there are significant production issues?