Brexiteers, if there was a 'People's Vote' how would you vote?

[millsbynight]

For me? I'd flatly vote No Deal.

Would others vote to stay in the EU or agree to Teresa May's deal?

Everyone I know who voted Leave would still vote Leave (the same goes for those who voted Remain) so I'd be really curious to see what the outcome of a 2nd referendum would generate.

Factory A sounds like British Leyland in the 70s. I'm old enough to remember what a great success that was, how the workforce lived it and how the products endure to this day as a symbol of excellence.

Efficiency on one day on a bit of paper means nothing. A business doesn't survive in one day. A business model that isn't flexible is hopeless. A business with no customers isn't a business.
One more push, eh?

1tisILeClerc - yep, factory A uses the same JIT practices as Factory B. Ceteris paribus and all that.

It's hilarious watching you Remainers contort yourselves trying to prove black is white. Yeah but look factory B does all these magic JIT things so it's much better to do it that way. :-)
Ceteris paribus. Ceteris paribus.

Which is the more efficient, Factory A or Factory B.

Come on. Factory B has lots of sea voyages and road transport and all related logistical costs involved in it's production. Factory A does not.

Come on, you can do it....say it.....Factory A is the more efficient.

(I can only dream).

So why did Factory A (British Leyland) close down?
Is this your idea of a debate? Not much of a business person are you? Alan Sugar would rip your nonsense to pieces in the board room.

Your factories argument is another fallacious argument because you are begging the queston, and ignoring the real world situation in that most ( if not all) of the car industry factories that we were talking about operate in a different way.

Of course your question also allows you to ignore that building all of the plants needed for factory A would be of vast cost, whilst having spare capacity and expertise in other areas. So vastly adding to FC, which leads to overall LRAC.

Oh and thus is less efficient.

"It's hilarious watching you Remainers contort yourselves trying to prove black is white"

Its hilarious watch you try to make an economic argument, this was a massively fallacious point, and one you set up entirely to make your point.

"Right, so trade between EU countries and countries not in the single market has grown faster (both in nominal and relative terms) than trade between EU members and you think this shows that the single market is a great success?"

No it shows that trade from the EU has grown with outside partners, which shows that it is possible to trade with those outside the EU whilst being in it.

Intra EU trade is far more established and likely to grow at a slower rate than outside, especially if FTAs have been signed with other countries, it doesn't mean what you are making out and that the single market is not successful or has acted to stifle intra EU trade.

Making such points really does make me question your assertion of a degree in Econ.

@OutsideInTheGarden

Don't worry about me then, I'll be fine. Sorry your little Remainer revenge fantasy won't come true. :-)

Well I won't be fine and my children won't be fine. I'm losing my job because of Brexit and only UK passports in our house so huge opportunity for travel stripped from my children. That probably is yours and other Leavers fantasy though.

BorisBogtrotter - "Of course your question also allows you to ignore that building all of the plants needed for factory A would be of vast cost, whilst having spare capacity and expertise in other areas. So vastly adding to FC, which leads to overall LRAC."

Nope. Still avoiding answering whether Factory A or Factory B is the most efficient. Lots of what-a-bout-ery, throwing in FC (fixed costs) and LRAC (long-run-average-costs). That last one really undermines your argument - using jargon to try to confuse. Oh dear!
Why can't you just admit that in my model, Factory A is the most efficient?
If we are debating economics here and you refuse to accept a basic and fundamental economic point then we really can't progress or else we are going to go on and on for pages and then you'll throw in witches, wizards and magic to 'prove' why you are right.
Can we stick to economics and agree on some basics?

Come on, you can do it. Factory A or Factory B?

BorisBogtrotter - "No it shows that trade from the EU has grown with outside partners, which shows that it is possible to trade with those outside the EU whilst being in it."

On this we agree. Now move onto the next step in the logical process.....
Trade between EU27 countries and the (non-EU) UK after Brexit will...….

BorisBogtrotter - "Intra EU trade is far more established and likely to grow at a slower rate than outside, especially if FTAs have been signed with other countries, it doesn't mean what you are making out and that the single market is not successful or has acted to stifle intra EU trade. "

Actually if you go back to the early days, intra-EU trade wasn't that well established and still isn't despite the single market, e.g. the French buy French cars and the Germans, German ones.

I'm not arguing that the single market hasn't had some success but rather it hasn't been the amazing boost than everyone seems to assume it has been. Once you can see this then the 'loss' of the single market really isn't much of a loss. EUNon-EU trade shows this.

Essentially, despite Remainer claims, we are not all going to die because we leave the single market.

"Still avoiding answering whether Factory A or Factory B is the most efficient."

Nope because you are begging the question, starting with your own premise in order to prove yourself right. Fallacious.

"That last one really undermines your argument - using jargon to try to confuse. Oh dear!"

Shouldn't confuse you if you were an economics graduate, I was being on the level.

"Why can't you just admit that in my model, Factory A is the most efficient?"

Because you set it up to beg the question, ignoring the reality of what was being discussed.

"Remainer claims, we are not all going to die because we leave the single market."

Appeal to ridicule, there.

Flawed arguments abound with you, and very poor economics.

Outside - can you actually show us an example of a post where a remainer has claimed that we're all going to die because we leave the single market, because I think you probably just made that up.

Actually if you go back to the early days, intra-EU trade wasn't that well established and still isn't despite the single market, e.g. the French buy French cars and the Germans, German ones."

This is a ridiculous claim, intra EU trade is very established these days, and has less room to grow, convergence means that developing economies grow at a faster rate than richer ones, and so growth in exports to them will grow at a faster rate too.

KennDodd - " ... only UK passports in our house so huge opportunity for travel stripped from my children."

For goodness sake, get a grip.

Why would your children be 'stripped' of the opportunity to travel? People travel outside Europe all the time - where's the problem?

It's a big world out there, Kenn.

There is a difference between being able to travel long term, like having the opportunity to work in another country visa free, and being able to travel short term.

Which is what is being alluded to.

Essentially, despite Remainer claims, we are not all going to die because we leave the single market

What a completely fucking idiotic thing to say.

AutumnCrow

Its an appeal to ridicule, an attempt to make the argument of remainers sound ridiculous.

On another thread Outside has accused me of not offering evidence for his week arguments, I've done it consistently.

More bullshit from sky news for you @OutsideInTheGarden .

BorisBogtrotter - "There is a difference between being able to travel long term, like having the opportunity to work in another country visa free, and being able to travel short term."

Obviously. And yet people do work and travel long term - all over the world. They get a little thing called a stamp in their passport.

Unless Kenn's kids have criminal records, I think France will let them in.

But to work in a third country you need a work visa. It's not just passing through.