Westministenders: Game Over?

[RedToothBrush]

May has a draft deal which she has presented to the Cabinet. Woohooo!

The catch is, it doesn't mention the Irish Border. Just a minor point. This is because she has no way forward on it. There are so many red lines from so many different groups shes tangled up in knots with them.

She wrote a letter to the DUP to tell them to suck it up. Arlene has told her to stick it. And if she hadn't told her to stick it, Scottish Tories would have told her to stick it. David Davis has told her to stick it. Rees-Moog has told her to stick it. And this afternoon, one of the Ministers for Queues at Dover, Jo Johnson, told her to stick it and that we need a people's vote. On top of that, her plans to try and get cross party support and get the Labour Party to support it, have suffered a blow as Momentum voted to tell May to stick it.

In fact it might be harder to think of people who WILL support it.

Not that this is a surprise. We've all be aware of this for some time. Is it finally game over?

The government have at least seemingly realised that this month is the last opportunity they have for a deal. Dominic has also realised that Dover is quite close to France and this is quite a big deal.

The EU pushed back their meeting until the 27th. This coincidentally is the same day there is a decision over a50 at the ECJ and the right to revoke.

If May can't get her act together over the Irish Border, this might yet prove to be the last option open to her, to prevent Brexmaggeddon.

Jo Johnson is not too far from the mark with vassalage or chaos? Take your pick Mrs May.

This is also why I'd rather have any Deal than No Deal of that means the uk keeps some links with the EU.
Im hoping this will at least slow down the sharp turn to a far right. And will give people tools to oppose a system based on what is basically a fascist attitude.

I have to say. There has been many movements towards the far right in Europe. But as far as I know, nothing that has come as far as where the uk is atm

Far right ideology has been put into practice across mainland Europe in the past (see today's commemorations) and those living there don't like it so although young upstarts may stamp around it is fairly unlikely it would get mainstream support.
In theory Marine Le Pen's party has equal rating with Mr Macron in France but turning it into a ballot box victory is a different matter. Certainly Mr Macron has serious work to do and the fall of the UK may be a bit of a gift.

^An essay by a prominent leftwing academic that examines the ethics of socialist revolution has been targeted by a leading university
using the government’s counter-terrorism strategy^

And the psychoactive substances act needed coffee, tea, alcohol, tobacco, and chocolate to be specifically exempted, since they fit the textbook definition of a "psychoactive substance".

I'm still waiting for a conviction for using incense (not exempt).

David Miliband eyes UK return as rumours of new centrist party grow
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/david-miliband-eyes-uk-return-as-rumours-of-new-centrist-party-grow-8fh7vrsxc

Red I do understand your frustrations and your fears. I truly do. But on this point you made yesterday...

The EU after that point will have to invest huge amounts of their own money to deal with no deal. At this point, all political will for any deal evaporates.

All political will does not evaporate, because of Ireland. Now, whether Ireland’s lobbying for a deal to the very last minute will work with the EU as a whole, I don’t know. But Ireland very much fears being left in a position where legally it has to enforce a border, leaving so many of its countrymen feeling disenfranchised on the other side. They will be looking for alternatives to no-deal that back-up the GFA as late as possible.

Military could be used under 'no-deal' Brexit, says minister
www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/military-could-be-used-under-no-deal-brexit-says-minister/ar-BBPzG40?ocid=st

Military could be used under ‘no deal’ Brexit, says minister
On Remembrance Sunday.

^Brexit shows that idiots and incompetents are in charge in the UK
The lesson of the first World War is that terrible things happen to ordinary countries^
www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/brexit-shows-that-idiots-and-incompetents-are-in-charge-in-the-uk-1.3693980

Businesses that are poorly managed usually wither and die. Countries that are poorly governed rarely expire (although it has been known) but rather just fade away

History teaches us that bad things happen to well-meaning, essentially decent people. The lesson of the 100th anniversary of the first World War is that terrible things happen to ordinary countries who neither desired nor deserved what happened next

Lot of deliberate choreography this time of year lonely

Sorry, that was to born. Quite agree with your earlier post Somerville.

John Major made a very good point about a centrist party. He said that if the moderates from Labour and the Tories leave, a centrist party gets three terms or so, but then everyone gets tired of it (only natural) the only parties left are very right or very left wing.

I suppose if a centrist party won it might make Labour and Cons move more to the middle to attract the voters, but if all the moderates have left....

That's why I'm sceptical about a centrist party. It's a sticking plaster. Really we need Labour and the Tories to get their shit together and stop pandering to the extremes in their parties, which I acknowledge is easier said than done.

Just posted:

@DMiliband
Macron right. From the bravery amidst horror, & noble ideals, we remember today, let us also learn. War & aggression is rearing its ugly head. We cannot just listen to lessons of history, we have to act. That arc of history will not bend on its own. Patriotism yes, nationalism no

"We have to act"

A centrist party wouldn’t last, true.

What we need is some form of proportional representation that would force dialogue and consensus. But that would undermine vested interests.

There’s an almost pleasing symmetry involving the Milibands on the left and the Johnsons on the right. But which are the matching pairs?

I agree we don't need a centrist party. We need common sense from Labour or Tories. Frankly, at this desperate point, I'd accept it from either.

Labour is the SWP. Tories are EDL. They no longer exist as parties.

Good description, @woman11017 .

We have a centrist party, already, the Lib Dems, they are doing badly.

The military most definitely will be used in case of no deal.
The UK has at most three months of basic supplies including antibiotics.

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-6376263/DAN-HODGES-Mrs-Mays-heard-real-voice-Britain-out.html
I think this DM article captures the zeitgeist nicely.
No fewer than eight separate Cobra national resilience protocols are set to be activated, including plans to deal with blackouts, petrol shortages and even the collapse of the UK’s satellite navigation systems. Real-life is about to shoulder aside the impenetrable debates over the back-stops – and the back-stops to the back-stops...

...A Downing Street source told me yesterday, with a mastery of understatement: ‘The deal isn’t going to be perfect.’ But the reality is the voters are not expecting perfection. What they crave now is resolution.

I get the impression that there is a real hunger for chaos in certain quarters, and that 'impenetrable debates' are causing actual anger (stoked of course by articles like this, but not any less real because it is based on ignorance and stupidity).

Vince Cable.

Well that's random and completely uncalled for

Reported.

For a centrist party to triumph in the UK a PR system needs to be introduced. PR encourages centrism and ensures centrist voices do not get lost.

The FPTP system guarantees that dog whistle politics will win out, especially with the press the way it is.

What you are looking at now is only a very exaggerated form of the dog whistle politics that has been going on for decades.

borntobequiet x post with you..

Agree too that there is no need for a separate centrist party. A PR system would encourage moderate, centrist voices within already established parties.

Adam Payne @ adampayne26
Exclusive: In a confidential meeting last month, DExEU told a room of shocked pharmaceutical representatives they couldn’t guarantee that medicines won’t run out in a no deal Brexit

uk.businessinsider.com/theresa-mays-government-cant-rule-out-medicine-shortage-after-brexit-2018-11
Theresa May's government told leading medics UK can't rule out medicine shortages in a no-deal Brexit