Westministenders: Game Over?

[RedToothBrush]

May has a draft deal which she has presented to the Cabinet. Woohooo!

The catch is, it doesn't mention the Irish Border. Just a minor point. This is because she has no way forward on it. There are so many red lines from so many different groups shes tangled up in knots with them.

She wrote a letter to the DUP to tell them to suck it up. Arlene has told her to stick it. And if she hadn't told her to stick it, Scottish Tories would have told her to stick it. David Davis has told her to stick it. Rees-Moog has told her to stick it. And this afternoon, one of the Ministers for Queues at Dover, Jo Johnson, told her to stick it and that we need a people's vote. On top of that, her plans to try and get cross party support and get the Labour Party to support it, have suffered a blow as Momentum voted to tell May to stick it.

In fact it might be harder to think of people who WILL support it.

Not that this is a surprise. We've all be aware of this for some time. Is it finally game over?

The government have at least seemingly realised that this month is the last opportunity they have for a deal. Dominic has also realised that Dover is quite close to France and this is quite a big deal.

The EU pushed back their meeting until the 27th. This coincidentally is the same day there is a decision over a50 at the ECJ and the right to revoke.

If May can't get her act together over the Irish Border, this might yet prove to be the last option open to her, to prevent Brexmaggeddon.

Jo Johnson is not too far from the mark with vassalage or chaos? Take your pick Mrs May.

I was reading (via translate) the French news article about the ceremony with Mrs Merkel and Mr Macron the other day. The French comments on the article were very measured and pretty thoughtful. There was a criticism that the German flag was bigger than the French flag with a slightly cutting comment.
The speech regarding the hopes for multilateralism, while acknowledging there are problems, as written (presumably) by Mr Macron is encouraging, as a European. It seems a shame that the UK gov, at least doesn't seem to want to be part of it.

@KeohaneDan
Today of all days, the symbolism of this is so saddening.

'saddening' not the word I would use.

It seems a shame that the UK gov, at least doesn't seem to want to be part of it.

While going on about Global Britain, and reforging links with the white Commonwealth.

£300 prize for contributions on this thread, it would appear that having read AJP Taylor or Primo Levi excludes one from participation.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/sponsored_discussions/3408447-Share-the-things-you-re-grateful-to-the-First-World-War-generation-for-with-The-Royal-British-Legion

Thank you to 'Talkstotrees for that excellent summary.

I am not sure that there is ever British representation at the Paris ceremony apart from the Ambassador. The French are not normally at the Cenotaph either. As I said earlier, the German President is, for the first time.

Many Commonwealth leaders are in Paris, starting with Trudeau.

There are 70 world leaders starting a 'Peace' meeting this afternoon after lunch at Mr Macron's place.
There was a small protest by the young ladies of Feminem (spelling?) at the Arch de Triomphe yesterday morning. A bit 'fresh' out to go topless if you ask me!

missimpson
This is not a normal celebration though. It's the centennial. This also comes at a time of tensions and rising nationalism so remembering peace as part of a global community would have been important.

Well if nobody is going for any of the three day event in Paris then that is wrong, but do we know that? I can understand why everyone was at the Cenotaph today though.
I would expect Trudeau to be in France, presumably he will have been to Vimy Ridge. Of course here November 11th is only for WW1. We have another bank holiday on May 8th for WW2.

Delurking after following along since the beginning. I met one of the "I voted Remain but now..." people today. We had a bit of a heated debated, at the post memorial ceremony which feels a little wrong in some ways. Incidentally, mayor of the French village thanked the English friends for coming.

Anyway, a question for you more knowledgeable people. One of the arguments I was not able to counter (we had the usual "they need us, do you think they won't want to expert, it's a great opportunity, you don't know how it will turn out" etc) was that the massive drop in nurse recruitment from the EU is because of more stringent English language requirements NOT that nurses.don't want to come. I hadn't heard of this, and feel instinctively that this does not really account for the difference, but would love it if someone knew more? The woman didn't seem particularly well informed on anything else, including what might happen if she is here in France post Brexit with her dog...

Huge thanks to redtoothbrush for keeping these threads going, I have learned such a lot. Marched 4 times having never had the courage to march before and posted my letter to T May on Friday before I came here!

Jeremy Corbyn criticised for small poppy pin and ‘hoodie’ at Armistice Day service author imageHarley TamplinSunday 11 Nov 2018 11:32 am Share this article via facebook Share this article via twitter Share this article via messenger 255Shares Jeremy Corbyn has faced criticism for wearing the ‘smallest poppy he could find’ to mark the centenary of the Armistice. The Labour leader united with Prime Minister Theresa May to lay a wreath at the foot of the Cenotaph. However, Mr Corbyn was criticised on social media for appearing ‘scruffy’ as politicians and Royals remembered fallen soldiers with a two-minute silence

Read more: metro.co.uk/2018/11/11/jeremy-corbyn-criticised-for-small-poppy-pin-and-hoodie-at-armistice-day-service-8127321/?ito=cbshare

Michael Foot moment?

Corbyn was trying to ape Michael Foot - I remember that event. Corbyn isn't fit to lick Foot's boots. And Foot was an unsuitable leader too.

Talk It is unclear whether the Uk can unilaterally revoke A50:
that is why the case has gone before the ECJ

Lord Kerr, responsible for drafting, did so quite poorly, because he assumed there was little chance it would be used and certainly not by a major country.

Both the Uk and the EU state that revocation requires unanimity from the Uk and from all the other 27 members

So, the ECJ may well prefer not to rule on something so controversial; hence maybe reserve judgement

I have also read reports that Article 50 will be updated considerably after what has been learned
.., and part of that will be a specific clause that it can not be revoked unilaterally

Macron in English @ macroninenglish
Patriotism is the antithesis of nationalism. Nationalism is inherently treasonous. In saying “our interests first, and forget the others”, we lose the most important part of the nation: its moral values

Emmanuel Macron @ EmmanuelMacron
Le patriotisme est l’exact contraire du nationalisme : le nationalisme en est la trahison. En disant « nos intérêts d’abord et qu’importent les autres ! », on gomme ce qu’une Nation a de plus précieux, ce qui la fait vivre : ses valeurs morales.

I think Macron is not always as wonderful as some paint him out to be. He can be arrogant and irratating and wrong.

But...

... This tweet.

Dan Hodges surprisingly informative in the Sunday Mail:

Talked to an anonymous Cabinet Minister - I wonder who ?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-6376263/DAN-HODGES-Mrs-Mays-heard-real-voice-Britain-out.html

‘If we don’t get a deal signed off in principle next week, then we have to move ahead with No Deal,’
the Cabinet Minister explained.

‘November 15 is the final date we can place the order for ships to bring in the necessary supplies.

The stockpiling of the medicines has to begin around then as well.

We also need to start construction of a new border post at Dover.’
...
Unless a deal is concluded, in a week’s time, Britain will move on to a war footing.

Contingency plans will be activated to ensure transportation and warehousing of emergency food, medicine and other supplies to the UK.

No fewer than eight separate Cobra national resilience protocols are set to be activated,
including plans to deal with blackouts, petrol shortages
and even the collapse of the UK’s satellite navigation systems.

Macron's tweet represents the EU that I support, that rejects beggar-thy-neighbour and jingoistic nationalism

Carole Cadwalladr: TaxPayers’ Alliance concedes it launched smears against Brexit whistleblower

WOW

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/11/brexit-whistleblower-shahmir-sanni-taxpayers-alliance-concedes-it-launched-smears

Shahmir Sanni lost job and was falsely vilified as a fantasist and liar after revelations about Vote Leave spending

The rightwing pressure group the TaxPayers’ Alliance has conceded that it illegally sacked the whistleblower Shahmir Sanni for revealing unlawful overspending in the Brexit referendum campaign,
in a case that could have a major impact on how lobbyists are described in the media.

In a development that lawyers have described as “almost unprecedented”,
the group has also conceded that it illegally vilified Sanni on the BBC in coordination with a network of other “linked” organisations.

The alliance has accepted all the allegations Sanni made during his action claiming unfair dismissal, wrongful dismissal, direct discrimination and “dismissal by reason of a philosophical belief in the sanctity of British democracy”.

Significantly, it has also conceded that it is liable for what Sanni’s lawyer, Peter Daly of Bindmans, describes as “extreme public vilification”.

The uncontested claim has stated that the TaxPayers’ Alliance is responsible for Elliott’s Brexit Central website as part of nine “linked” high-profile rightwing “thinktanks”

that operate in and around offices at 55 Tufton Streett^ in Westminster and coordinate media and other strategy.

In March, Sanni revealed to the Observer massive overspending by the official Vote Leave campaign, which has now been found to be in breach of the law by the Electoral Commission.

The day before this was published, Downing Street released a statement that revealed Sanni was gay
...
Details of the alliance’s relationship with Downing Street and the role of Stephen Parkinsonn*, Theresa May’s political secretary, will now not be heard in court.
< I bet there was pressure on the Taxpayers Alliance to settle, to avoid No. 10 being exposed in court >

A separate claim by Sanni against Downing Street is still ongoing.

Macron's tweet is why, however much I am tempted, I can't actively wish for Scottish independence on the back of Brexit, in a "Hell Mend the English" kind of way because it is the poorest and most vulnerable in England who will be hurt the most even if they voted for it Even if it takes longer to achieve Scottish independence, I'd rather it wasn't on the back of this clusterfuck

Part of me, though, can't stop thinking that the UK needs to leave and be absolutely excoriated in the big bad world on its own, so that it can overcome its hubris of "Don't they know who we are?" and I'm not including me/the Scots in that "we" and its continued belief in the existence of the British Empire and so finally lance the boil of its sense of exceptionalism.

The EU would be well shot of us the arrogant English (and by that I mostly mean Westminster) before I get reminded that NAEALT

....but see my first paragraph. And repeat

I'm not going to click on the Daily Fail thread for fear of boosting their coffers but taking the excerpts, I do feel we are being played now. If a minister is feeding this war prepping stuff to us, it is so we will buy any deal May gets. I heard a leaver talking on the radio about the Raab gaff and saying he doesn't believe he was that ignorant but we are being softened up for things being so tough that we have to take whichever end of the shitty stick we get offered. There's a pattern.

Apparently David Lidington is at the Paris event as TM's deputy. I dislike TM as much as anyone, but I do think her place was at the Cenotaph today. She was at Thiepval yesterday.
We groaned when we saw Corbyn's coat. What a stupid thing to do.