Budget supporting Middle England

[Bearbehind]

On what planet is is right that a couple earning £100k plus are over £1,000 better off when a couple earning £25k between them are £150 better off after the budget.

And the latter probably voted Leave in order to shake up the establishment.

Hmm. Did the people who brought down Communism or Apartheid give up? No.
I am not saying that what those countries have now is perfect but at least people tried.

I have tried - it’s making no fucking difference because none of the politicians, from either main camp, have the balls to do anything to stop it.

JC is fairly true to what he believes in and look where that has got him?

My own view of him is he is rather naive to be a party leader, he lacks that ruthlessness that is needed in the modern era of politics, however for many that is also his appeal!

I do not vote for a party because of their leader (which changes often) but their policies and ethos.

For me, the Tories are predominately for the well off and this is where they start from...self interest both for themselves and their wealthy backers.
The last budget is a classic Tory one, clever in that they can turn around and say "ah well, proportionately, the poor gain the most" (we are the party of the JAM's) omitting this is not the case in monetary terms at all.
By doing this, they made it very hard for Labour to oppose.

Well the world in which people are rewarded for hard work presumably.

I have tried - it’s making no fucking difference because none of the politicians, from either main camp, have the balls to do anything to stop it

you need to keep trying, politicians need people like you to vote for them, write to your MP, the PM, the letter protest on the 9th, all tell MP's we are not happy, fo on your MPs FB page.....

The ERG types never gave up!

By doing this, they made it very hard for Labour to oppose.

Why couldn’t Labour oppose a budget that gave more to high rate tax payers than low rate?

I genuinely don’t understand your acceptance of the opposition refusing to oppose.

@jasjas1973 he is a terrorist sympathiser and a communist idoliser. He’s ruthless AF. He’s so callous he make Margret Thatcher look soft. He openly celebrated recent events in Venezuela. He openly mourned Castro. He clearly has no qualms over innocent people being killed by people who want to tell them how to live. That man is cold.

Well the world in which people are rewarded for hard work presumably.

Yes because high rate tax payers all work much harder than low rate.

FFS.

Why couldn’t Labour oppose a budget that gave more to high rate tax payers than low rate?

One reason I heard is that some public sector workers e.g. head teachers are actually higher rate tax payers. It sounds like a bit of an excuse. Yes, sure someone on £100K is a sight better off than most, but it pales into insignificance compared with e.g. May's Cabinet, which is stuffed full of millionaires. These are the ones they should be going after.

It sounds like a bit of an excuse

Yes it does - if Labour are willinging to prioritise high rate tax payers over low rate, what makes them any different to the Tories?

And more importantly, why do low rate Labour supporters just accept this?

I genuinely don’t understand your acceptance of the opposition refusing to oppose

By failing to support the budget, May like previous Tory leaders would have been forever going on that Labour voted to cut the pay of the lower paid, they do this every time, give a grain to the poor and loaf to the well off and then dare Labour to oppose.

That’s nonsense - Labour have supported a budget which rewards the higher paid more than the lower paid.

The fact you then justify their actions astounds me.

He clearly has no qualms over innocent people being killed by people who want to tell them how to live. That man is cold

Don't be stupid.
Maggie (and the rest of the Tories) gave refuge to Pinochet, a man who killed 1000s, she sunk a boat sailing away from the falklands, killing 100s of young conscripts (even the yanks couldn't believe what she'd done)

The present Tory administration are selling weapons to the Saudi's which are being used to target men women and children and has directly causing a famine of 14 million people, they've recently killed a journalist then dissolved his body in acid but that's all ok because they are our friends :(

JC for all his faults has killed no-one and his support for terrorism is MSM lies and manipulation.

@Bear

The budget was going through whatever they did, if they'd opposed it, the press and the tories would have had a field day and said that Labour were opposing a pay rise for the poor, their opposition to the higher rate give away would have been lost in the howls of protest.

They can now pull the tories up on their disgraceful behaviour without this charge being made

Sometimes you have to pick your battles, its the smart move.

JC for all his faults has killed no-one and his support for terrorism is MSM lies and manipulation.

Of course nothing is ever his fault is it? I guess you believe he was responsible for the Goid Friday Agreement like his obsessed supporters do.

*Good

jas that literally makes no sense to me.

I agree that it wouldn’t actually have mattered if the Labour Party had opposed it as it would have gone through anyway but why on earth are you happy with them actively supporting it.

They could have pointed out it favours the high rate tax payer over the low rate as part of their opposition.

I’m struggling to understand what the ‘battles they are going to pick’ are.

It’s not Brexit and it’s not supporting low rate tax payers ..........

They can now pull the tories up on their disgraceful behaviour without this charge being made

How?

They’ve condoned it.

@bear

Surely you must be able to see that had Labour opposed the budget, the rightwing media would have been all over the fact that in doing so, Labour have also opposed the lower rate increase?

In PMQ's May would have taunted Labour with this too.

I'm not going to keep banging on about this, if you can't see what Labour are up against, then there is little point in continuing as you never will, Newspapers reach 10s of millions of people and what get reported in the SUN etc has a profound affect on peoples opinions.

jas I agree we are probably never going to agree on this.

I cannot understand why you support the labour party doing sweet FA to oppose the very things they are supposed to just because the nasty Tories will not just let it lie.

It’s so defeatist. And pretty pathetic TBH.

The Labpur party should be able to robustly defend their points of opposition so MSM can try their best but it won’t work.

Moving on....

This is what 8 years of Tory austerity have bough us, a UN investigation into poverty in the UK.

www.theguardian.com/business/2018/nov/05/un-rapporteur-philip-alston-uk-austerity

It won't be in the MSM, nor was the 17yo mentally ill child forced to live in a tent for month by Cornwall CC by their social services teams, given 2 tents after the first one leaked.
He eventually spent 11 months in a secure unit such was the extent of his problems..... great isn't?
I listened to this on R4's file on four, a heartbreaking story.

Within a decade, if people like you Bear don't wake up and oppose the Tories, we'll have a return to the Work House, the Poor Laws were only abolished in 1948, under a Labour Government

Within a decade, if people like you Bear don't wake up and oppose the Tories, we'll have a return to the Work House, the Poor Laws were only abolished in 1948, under a Labour Government

Ah, so ‘people like me’ need to oppose the Tories but it’s fine for the Labour party not to bother.

Your arguments make no sense. I no longer support the Tories but I don’t think Jabour are any better.

Unlike you I don’t see how people can be expected to vote in a party that cannot even defend their position whilst in opposition.

@Bear

Labour have a whole raft of policy differences to the tories, as i'm sure you'll agree.
Corbyn and Labour oppose almost everything the Tories stand for.

However, unless middle England starts to oppose the conservatives, they'll get re-elected.

So yes, it is "people like you" who i would hope will do this and stop voting for personal gain. (i accept you haven't done this)

fwiw i have often drifted into the 40% tax bracket and no doubt if Labour got elected, certain policies would make me worse off but like you, i've got more than enough and can easily afford to pay more to ensure we ve a more equitable society.

Corbyn and Labour oppose almost everything the Tories stand for.

Except this whole discussion is about the fact they don’t actually oppose the Tories when it comes down to it.

Talk is cheap but their actions speak very loudly.

Well, as i said, we'll have to disagree on that.

However, if Labour vote for the deal May brings back and it goes through, then i will agree with you and it will have to be the Libdems if i'm still in the UK, as ii will then try and leave the UK.

It won't be a country i would want to call "home" and support with my taxes.