Budget supporting Middle England

[Bearbehind]

On what planet is is right that a couple earning £100k plus are over £1,000 better off when a couple earning £25k between them are £150 better off after the budget.

And the latter probably voted Leave in order to shake up the establishment.

I really don't know why Labour don't change their tune. They were worried about their vote in their 'heartlands', but most in those areas have now woken up to the fact that they were conned.

Motheroffourdragons - I'm not too concerned yet . There has been no concerted Indy campaign since 2014, yet support has stayed consistently at the 45+% level and the "All Under One Banner" marches have been getting larger despite there being no imminent Indyref2 (not that there is much reporting of them ) - like this recent one in Edinburgh

But unlike Cameron, Nicola doesn't want to hold another referendum until she is sure of at least 60% in support. Unfortunately, the clusterfuck that is Brexit might bounce her into pushing for one sooner than she would like.

Pretty
I think you might have upset a few Romans, or more likely slaves working for them, with your picture of a small fence holding back the Scottish hoards. They didn't need to build a dirty great wall at all!

It’s not helpful because it’s not the most likely outcome of Labour voting down a deal

The most likely outcome of that is no deal

Nonsense, the whole point of publishing those Impact papers is to bully people into doing what you are doing now, supporting May in signing up to a very damaging brexit.

She nor anyone else is going to halt flights, shipping, transport etc etc on March 30th, which what a no-deal risks... the public out cry would be incalculable and extremely dangerous.

Despite all your moaning about how bad brexit will be for the uk, you now seem content to support May in a yet unknown "deal" and quite possibly one that doesn't command the support of all her cabinet and the DUP, let alone the EU.

There still everything to play for, if she cannot get a cabinet deal, what then? there is still a strong possibility of further cabinet resignations and more turmoil.

Do you really think she'll just shut up shop and tell everyone "we are leaving in xx months time with no-deal, so start panic buying /hoarding"

Do you really think she'll just shut up shop and tell everyone "we are leaving in xx months time with no-deal, so start panic buying /hoarding"

No - I think the best option would be for all parties to support the least worst Brexit possible.

It’s too late for Labour to come out all guns blazing now and vote down whatever deal we manage to get. They should have done more sooner.

If they veto whatever deal now it will be no deal and Labour will be blamed for it.

There’s plenty of Tories actively seeking it anyway.

That’s assuming we can even agree a deal to vote on in the first place.

I used to think the grown ups would prevent no deal but it seems we’re fresh out of grown ups.

So, what do you think will happen if May cannot take a deal to Parliament?
Its a distinct possibility, you think she'll announce no-deal or seek another option? which could well be in the nest 2 weeks, long time till March!
At one point or another she might well have to admit defeat and at that point, a 2nd referendum, a GE or to declare the vote void, will become very attractive.

There is no least worst Brexit, all Brexits are shit.

There is no least worst Brexit, all Brexits are shit.

You appear to have pinned your hopes on Remaining being an option - I can’t see anyway in which that will happen.

I'm pretty sure she will come back with something - it won't be anything anybody likes, but it will be a deal of sorts.

Agreed mother

Like I said, the least shit Brexit.

Still shit but better than no deal.

@Bearbehind

Of course, i firmly believe that there is still, at this late stage, the possibility of staying in the EU.
Any Brexit is a fucking disaster, so would i support it?

I also believe such is the division in the Tory-DUP party, that anything they cobble together (even assuming they do so) will be rejected by the EU or business and all it will take is a substantial employer to announce it is leaving the uk after 2020 etc because of Brexit, then the political pressure to remain will be irresistible and at that point, she'll do a U turn.

You shouldn't be such defeatist ! we didn't win WW2 with such an attitude lol!

Still shit but better than no deal.

Once again this is all the Tories fault. They fought over EU membership, called a referendum, triggered A50 and now "control" the deal. It is a governments duty to look after the interests of its people. Brexit is not in the interests of the people. The Tories are failing to govern.

Endorsing any deal makes Labour a scapegoat. This is the Tories mess. Any deal that Labour endorses rewrites history. It makes the UK's issue with the EU look like a cross party problem. It really isn't.

Totally agree Frank, now is not the time to let the Tories off the hook for what they are doing to this Great Country of ours.

jas I would love you to be right but I’m pretty sure you are going to be disappointed because Corbyn’s Labour are not going to save us from this mess.

Labour have failed in that they don't appear to have a plan.
The Tories (Leavers) are standing at the edge of a massive hole and are arguing whether to jump, climb or be thrown into the hole.
Labour are not putting a WORKABLE plan out there.
The UK has already slid down onto a ledge, part way down the hole, so Labour needs to suggest a way to get back up and then a pathway from the hole. The plan needs to include the ( pretty likely) fact that a significant chunk of manufacturing and financial services have, or WILL leave on Brexit day, and the UK simply cannot 'bribe' them to stay, as that would be against EU regulations, plus the UK can't afford it.
Messing around with votes or referendums is all a diversion against formulating a plan. Without a goal, how will you know you have arrived?

That’s exactly the point I’ve bern making mother

I simply don’t follow the logic of thinking Labour should vote down any deal now, even if the deal involves staying in SM /CU, because it will result in a 2nd ref and us staying in EU.

It’s far more likely to result in no deal.

Completely disagree.

It is not up to Labour to propose a plan of escape, they didn't have a referendum in their 2015 manifesto.

Its a Tory fuck up and its up to the Tories and the brexitiers to solve it, leaving the EU has no least worst outcomes.

BUT lets be honest here, Brexit is un-deliverable (within the next few months) and the only way forward is to accept that and revoke art50

Did anyone see Peston? when Hancock admitted he'd had a letter from the Pharma industry that no-deal will mean huge medicine shortages. (such is the world we live in that it didn't even make a news bulletin)
That is the guarantee that voting against any deal she brings back will not result in a no-deal, which means a GE, a 2nd vote or a postponement/revocation of art50.

Bear, there is no deal in which we stay in the SM and CU, thats called being the EU.

@Bear for me, the 2nd vote isn't so much about staying in the EU, its about the UK making a decision based on the facts not a pack of lies and half truths.
If we still decide to leave, then that's a regrettable but democratic decision.

Bear, there is no deal in which we stay in the SM and CU, thats called being the EU.

Of course there is - it’s BINO.

Undoubtedly worse than what we have and it would be badged differently to get it passed the Leavers but it is the ONLY way we can actually secure some kind of deal.

Where is your evidence for this?