People’s Vote Delusion

[PersonaNonGarter]

It isn’t going to happen. For the following reasons:

1. May Government won’t vote for a second referendum
2. No new post-May Tory Government will vote for a second referendum
3. Jeremy Corbyn and those in the Labour Party front benches won’t vote for a second referendum
4. There is no agreement about what the referendum would ask.
5. There is no plausible timetable for a referendum.

Why would Corbyn want a second referendum? He is a Leaver wanting to win in Leave seats. And he wants to implement his domestic agenda, not waste any further time on Brexit votes. The current situation SUITS him.

So we only get called thick & xenophobic because we are & we deserve it.

Thanks for clearing that up.

I think many remainers are pompous arses with their own personal interests at heart.

Thought it then, think it now.

I think many remainers are pompous arses with their own personal interests at heart.

I think you should Recognise Your Role.

dapple it's creepy because that thread was over 2 years ago yet you bring it up every so often whilst never posting on these threads at any other time.

I've asked you this before and you've never answered, preferring to twist my comments.

How can you argue against my comment i.e., how can you justify people not thinking at all about the choice they are making and its consequences and just putting a cross in a box for no other reason than they have a right to?

@surferjet happy to be wrong. So happy. Don't care if I am a wrong pompous arse. Wrong is a result. Can you say that?

So we only get called thick & xenophobic because we are & we deserve it.

No

You only get called thick & xenophobic if you are

Surely Bear’s argument that we all have a duty to inform ourselves before casting a vote has some merit and is worthy of discussion. You might not agree but that is what debate is all about, no?

Just to recognise your own role.

I feel that mine is to fight this stupid shower of shit that is Brexit and, failing that, to protect my own and my family's best interests.

Absolutely talk

Happy to hear dapples counter to that point.

Surferjet at 8.05 this morning
Are you saying the remainers on this board have never called leavers xenophobic?
I’m certain I saw Peregrina call us that just the other day. So stop lying.

So, Peregrina comes on to point out that she has never said that all Leavers are xenophobic (indeed, in an earlier post she had explicitly mentioned that a Remain voting friend was xenophobic) - and would apologise if anyone could provide proof that she had done so.

....which leads to this ....

Surferjet at 9.10 this morning
Ok Bearbehind
Are you saying that no remainer has ever called a leaver thick & xenophobic on this board?

Make up your mind: is it "a" or "all"?

What is so good about the contradictions and inconsistencies and frequent attempts to blame Remain voters for the "shit" is that everyone (I'm thinking in particular of the Lurkers who might be interested in informing themselves) can read everything that had been posted and make their own judgement

Immigration, especially in areas where its not an issue i.e Cornwall was a huge reason people voted to Leave, so if that's not Xenophobic, what is it?

Brexit is national vandalism on a Grand scale, it has cause division, a brain drain (scientists and med staff) and has even poisoned Parliament, the remarks made toward T.May are disgraceful, esp considering the murder of Jo Cox.

OP what do you call Vandals?

I'm thinking surfer is really rattled right now because her comments are increasingly desperate and non-sensical.

Leavers, does it not concern you at all that the vast majority of the UK population is having significant rights and protections removed because a minority want this? My children were born with these rights and protections. Yes, I am furious and I sometimes lash out by questioning the critical thinking skills of some leavers (and their motivations). Sorry (not sorry). I’ll try to be more polite in future.

"Are you saying that no remainer has ever called a leaver thick & xenophobic on this board?"

I've certainly implied that leavers are thick, but only when they post bilge that shows they have no interest in or understanding of issues. We had one blathering on about Canada plus yesterday who couldn't answer the most basic questions. So yes. Thick or lying. Take your pick.

All leave voters thick? No. Some didn't really care that much and didn't consider it deeply. Some wanted a sensible (Norway) Brexit. Some stand to make money or gain influence out of Brexit. None of these people are necessarily stupid, though some are evil.

But the foot soldiers who post rubbish about trade and borders on the internet? They are mostly just not terribly bright.

surfer that's exactly what I mean about your comments being desperate.

That's a pretty strong accusation aimed at me there.

If you can prove me wrong and show where those comments you made have actually been posted I'll apologise.

Right now I do believe it is all in your head.

You're determined to extrapolate a few comments made on the back of xenophobic or stupid posts to make out all Remainers think those things about all Leavers.

Just like you took umbridge yesterday at the marchers not being rude enough on their signs.

It's like you want to believe all Remainers think that way about all Leavers in order to justify your views.

There are posters who make xenophobic comments and they get called out on it.

One example of a poster who was described as thick was the recent one who said the NI border would be solved if Ireland just left the EU too. Actually, that's probably more arrogant than thick.

That doesn't mean every Remainer thinks of every Leaver that way either on here or IRL.

The irony of you then calling many Remainers pompous arses is not lost either.

Surely Bear’s argument that we all have a duty to inform ourselves before casting a vote has some merit and is worthy of discussion.

Indeed. But there is a huge difference between saying voters should be well informed and that only the well informed should be allowed to vote.

preferring to twist my comments
Bear you started a thread saying only the well informed should be allowed to vote. How is repeating what you said twisting your comments?
Talk, do you agree with bear that only the well informed should have a vote?
How many voters in general elections knows exactly what each party has to offer? Should every citizen of voting age have to sit a test?

@PersonaNonGarter

There is loose and abusive language from both sides. Focusing on this is focusing on the division and further entrenches it. Highlighting each egregious case where hurtful or abusive language is used only serves to deepen the wound and freshen the grievance. Would it not be more constructive to ignore it and move on? Would we not be able to heal the division by focusing on your original question and synthesizing a position that all can agree to?

To that end, if a 2nd referendum isn't a realistic option how do you propose that the UK government should steer the country to an acceptable Withdrawal Agreement and a good EU trading relationship that doesn't significantly damage our economy?

thick leaver
Disclaimer: not all leavers are as dim as this, but some are.

Surfer, I know bear is strong enough to defend herself but I will call out your bullying behaviour. You are not doing yourself any favours here. Please stick to trying to sell us your Brexit and leave the personal insults out.

The reason Leavers rarely engage is because they won, they don't need to, e.g like you, leaving the hated EU is the ONLY goal and don't care at what cost to the country or anyone else.

Personally, never found Bears posts derogatory towards leavers, i think you are just making that up.

Remember BeLeavers you won so get over it right? Only in Brexshit Britain does that sentence make any sense

@talkstotrees
No, it doesn't concern me to be honest, and your formulation of "a minority want this" is simply wrong in my opinion. More people voted for Leave than for Remain, that was the process agreed.

Firstly, for some of those "protections", similar ones were to be found in UK law for years before they became part of EU law. So people having them is in no way dependent on the UK being in the EU.

So far as people having their rights removed, I'm assuming you are talking here principally about FOM? Well, that was the choice at the referendum. Remain and people get to keep their freedom of movement, Leave and people lose it. Am I worried about not having FOM, no, not a bit.