People’s Vote Delusion

[PersonaNonGarter]

It isn’t going to happen. For the following reasons:

1. May Government won’t vote for a second referendum
2. No new post-May Tory Government will vote for a second referendum
3. Jeremy Corbyn and those in the Labour Party front benches won’t vote for a second referendum
4. There is no agreement about what the referendum would ask.
5. There is no plausible timetable for a referendum.

Why would Corbyn want a second referendum? He is a Leaver wanting to win in Leave seats. And he wants to implement his domestic agenda, not waste any further time on Brexit votes. The current situation SUITS him.

I don't think it's extreme to ask Leave voters what the upsides will be now the bus has been taken off the road etc. It's not an extreme view to research facts and listen to expert opinion and ask questions to reach a sensible conclusion. I have never been extreme in my political views, but after research and questioning the ethos and likely outcome of leaving the EU, there are no demonstrable upsides - none whatsofuckingever.

rhetoric towards another group is part of the problem.....It is like you extreme Remainers and Leavers cannot cope with attributing intelligence and nuance to people who came to different conclusions to yourselves.

I honestly think that if you did one of those word cloud thingys the Leave one would be more full of rhetoric ( apart from immigration). The Remain one would have little rhetoric but be about economic facts.

I for one would be skipping, hugging Leavers and telling them they were right and I was wrong if the NHS and state education were thriving and becoming stronger and more stable ( remember those words?).

If there were any upward signs of us edging up from our former place of 5 th strongest economy to 4th, 3rd ,2nd or 1st . Great signs of a strong pound and great investment and business confidence I'd be attributing great foresight, nous and perspicacity to those who voted Leave.

"we're all in this together "
But we are emphatically not all in this together, when:
Redwood tells people not to invest in the UK but in France or Germany, which is what he's done.
Rees-Mogg moves some of his business to Dublin,
Nigel Lawson applies for a cart de sejour in France.

I don't blame Labour for the Referendum, but I do blame them for wasting time in the summer of 2016 attacking Corbyn, and for sitting on the fence now.

Thing is - even if every single leaver on mumsnet ( all 5 of them ) suddenly said they regret their decision, can see no good in brexit etc etc, nothing will change.
It would need every person in the country to march against brexit for it to be stopped.
A few 100 leavers on the internet telling remainers they regret their decision will change nothing.

So what do you want?

Being angry doesn't make you an extremist.

Seems like in Brexit Britain it does.

"Why can't you just be nice and smile sweetly while this thing is happening that you don't want to happen? If you don't smile, you'll hurt the feelings of the people who do want this thing to happen, and we all know that's literally the worst thing in the world."

Motheroffourdragons

Are you saying the remainers on this board have never called leavers xenophobic?
I’m certain I saw Peregrina call us that just the other day. So stop lying.

No, if you want to stop Brexit, you have to make Tory Mps fear for their jobs and party's ability to get a majority in the future.

If you live in a Conservative seat, write to your MP, say have always seen the Conservatives as the party of a stable economy, but if they allow 'No deal' or an economy damaging deal to go through, you will nor vote for them again and the general public will laugh at any suggestion the Conservatives can be trusted with the economy.

If Tories feel it will damage the economy and lead to them being out of power for a long old time, they might start trying to find ways to avoid that.

It's only because Labour look so unelectable that they aren't worrying about that too much now.

No, if you want to stop Brexit, you have to make Tory Mps fear for their jobs and party's ability to get a majority in the future.

No you need to speak to all your MPs we need MPs from both sides of the house to get on board if we’re ever going to have a chance of stopping this. This is a cross party issue it’s not time to be partisan.

I am quite sure that you didn't see Peregrina call all Leavers xenophobic. Some yes, because that is undeniable, although I doubt if I have said it on these threads to other posters. But if you can find a quote where I said this 'you Leavers are all xenophobes', I will stand corrected and apologise. Call Farage a xenophobe, yes or talk about Theresa May's xenophobic policies at the Home Office, yes, I will certainly admit to those.

Peregrina
I couldn’t care less what you say on here, you’re just another random on the internet - but when Motheroffourdragons comes out with bollocks like this; I will say something.

You always get a leaver (usually surfer) coming on to say remoaners always call leavers thick or xenophobic or some such usually when nobody has said anything of the sort

She is outright lying because the remainers on here have called leavers thick & xenophobic 100’s of times.

Which is fine, but don’t deny it FFS,
Own your own shit.
There’s no edit/ delete post option on here.
Everything you say is on record.

Own your own shit.

The irony is strong with this one

‘THEY are more bad than US’

Remainers/Leavers your extreme anger, othering, bile whatever about how thick/wrong/xenophobic the other group are is a problem. A big societal problem. No one asks you to ‘smile sweetly’. Just to recognise your own role.

I wouldn’t have bothered replying to your outright lies if you hadn’t mentioned me personally saying I make things up.

So if you don’t want my attention don’t mention me.

I agree with gamerwidow - write to your MP (often) and persuade friends and colleagues to write to theirs. Make appointments to see your MPs. We need to keep the pressure on during the next few critical weeks.

I read pretty much all Brexit related threads/posts on mn and see far more nastiness aimed at remain posters than leave supporters. Yes, a few irregular posters pop up occasionally to make comments of the knuckledraggers variety. These posts are unhelpful and ridiculous, but they are not made by regular remain supporters and are not limited to Brexit related threads.

I think the current narrative of meany remain bullies is an attempt to divert attention. Brexit is a shitshow with no redeeming features.

Oppose, oppose, oppose! Or give us some solid reasons for supporting it.

surfer you know you are widely over exaggerating now.

I mentioned yesterday that I've never seen either of the phrases you quoted mentioned.

Likewise, I don't recall anyone saying all Leavers are xenophobic.

You are trying to rewrite history so it fits your narrative and is looking more than a little desperate.

Just to recognise your own role.

What exactly do you see our role to be?

Because from where I'm standing, all Leavers want is for Remainers to shut up and for us all to put our faith in there being some kind of miracle that makes this all work out.

Remainers are not to blame here.

Leavers want this, you need to own it.

Part of that is convincing Remainers it's the right decision but given you literally can't come up with any sensible arguments for that, it's not going to happen.

You've had over 2 years - why can't any of you tell us why this is worth it?

Why are so many of you wilfully ignoring the consequences and doubling down on your insistence that we need to leave despite having no evidence why it's the right thing to do?

Is my role to shut up?

You are trying to rewrite history so it fits your narrative and is looking more than a little desperate.

bearbehind you started a thread saying that only the well informed should be allowed to vote. Does that still fit your narrative?

Ok Bearbehind
Are you saying that no remainer has ever called a leaver thick & xenophobic on this board?

Ok.

Absolutely - it's truer now than it ever was dapple.

If people had been more informed and more aware of the consequences we wouldn't be in this mess now.

I do find it creepy that you only ever post on these threads to bring that up though.

No surfer, I know people have been called that, but only when they have said things that are xenophobic or downright stupid.

If someone says something ignorant and/or xenophobic, they don't get a free pass just because they voted Leave. Or Remain.
Some of the "solutions " to the Irish border posted on here are, at best, naive and at worst, downright stupid. With a smidge of xenophobia in for good measure. Do we have your gracious permission to criticise them as stupid?

Why do you find it creepy?
You started a thread saying you don’t believe in universal adult suffrage and you are now saying you stand by that?
That’s not so much creepy as downright weird.