People’s Vote Delusion

[PersonaNonGarter]

It isn’t going to happen. For the following reasons:

1. May Government won’t vote for a second referendum
2. No new post-May Tory Government will vote for a second referendum
3. Jeremy Corbyn and those in the Labour Party front benches won’t vote for a second referendum
4. There is no agreement about what the referendum would ask.
5. There is no plausible timetable for a referendum.

Why would Corbyn want a second referendum? He is a Leaver wanting to win in Leave seats. And he wants to implement his domestic agenda, not waste any further time on Brexit votes. The current situation SUITS him.

actually, my post above was meant for @indistinct

... cont ...
can you not see that you might just get what you want and that all the no-deal issues that industry groups, unions, manufacturers etc.. are warning of actually transpire to everyone's great misery. Is UK membership of EU so negative that you are willing to trigger this (or even to risk triggering it if you don't believe all of the warnings)? If so, I suggest you are unusual in your assessment. Responsible leavers please engage. Tell us why its all worth it, tell us why we're wrong.

Moussse: so what, we recovered from the Banksters crisis and other events

I just think in the same way as the vast majority of Leavers

threetrees where exactly do you stand on "mudslinging". I don't mind it myself so don't pick up on posters who do it unless it highlights a particular point.

But you can't get all "I expected better of you" and then say an argument is "emotional twaddle" 4 minutes later.

Either sling and get slung at or don't sling at all.

Threetrees
Unfortunately my 'drivel' is rather more convincing to anyone who can be bothered to think, or even just read any newspaper or watch the TV than anything 'leavers' can come up with. The other aspect is that I really couldn't care less about you, but I am concerned about friends and family.

Totally failed to recover from the crisis. It takes a long time to recover from economic upheaval which is why it is best to make economic changes incrementally.

A big upheaval will impact us negatively for decades.

{we can forge deals with other countries such as US and still trade with EU, Middle East, India, Australia etc..}
If you bother to read proper information rather than a couple of the tabloids you will discover that most of these countries have already cast doubt about getting any decent deals, plus the fact that deals will take years to be formulated and agreed upon.

@threetrees
Agree 1st half of post is emotional in nature. Disagree that its irrelevant twaddle - it's exactly these concerns that got a biggish chunk of the population on the streets in London. It's also why I'm on here at all trying to reach out to leavers (when I should be working).

Agree that we can forge new trade deals with US, Austrailia etc and that other nations outside of the EU have to deal with EU borders. But ... our economy is currently setup to be very integrated with EU. If we just sever the relationship with little/no transition then much of that economy will be damaged with the associated loss of jobs and human misery. Brexit is not an idle, largely irrelevant political project that will have little to no effect on people. It is a decision to substantially change the economic foundations of our country with substantial short term risks of recession, job losses and human hardship.

... and no clearly demonstrable benefits in the long-term.

And for good measure, Russia is objecting to the UK moving to WTO rules so that will add significant problems to the 'just do a deal' theory.

I'm sure we can forge new deals etc. But we are not particularly robust as a nation in terms of food and fuel and medicine independence. And if our economy and our currency take a big hit, the vultures will circle to do deals that suit them and not us.
How do we get from here to those sunlit uplands without a lot of pain. A LOT of pain. I don't think people are ready for it - the government and uk infrastructure certainly isn't.

Moussse: so what, we recovered from the Banksters crisis and other events

So what indeed ! :( what a lovely empathetic attitude.

2008 GFC wasn't self inflicted & we've not yet recovered from that, Gov still owns some of the banks it bought, real wages far behind where they should be, austerity still alive and kickin!

Plus, we don't have the levers to mitigate any crash ie Reserves, QE, Currency and interest rates.

I just think in the same way as the vast majority of Leavers

Clearly.

how am I expected to shift to the Remain POV with drivel like this to contend with?
I don't think any of us would expect to be able to shift your particular mindset.

Russia is objecting to the UK moving to WTO rules
Not just Russia, leClerq. Obviously, some countries haven't got wind of the fact that we're special.

{so what, we recovered from the Banksters crisis and other events}
There was a massive difference to that 'event'. It was worldwide so everyone was aware of it and most importantly it was 'only' one aspect to society.
Brexit will provide a shock similar to the banking crisis PLUS the risk of major job losses, problems with travel, food, medicines etc all hitting at the same time.

Yes, about 20 rather significant countries are objecting, even the USA where Mr Fox was claiming great deals could be done, to which the USA comment is 'not so fast matey'.

The UK also has the dubious accolade of being one of the countries that has recovered the least well (in fact, it still hasn't recovered ) since the Global Financial Crisis.

Almost all the other EU countries have recovered to beyond the point they were in 2008. The illustrious exceptions with whose company we keep are Greece and Portugal.

We haven't yet really recovered from the banking crisis, which no doubt helped cause the Brexit vote. Many were sick of austerity and it was a way of giving Cameron a kick in the teeth.

The fact that the UK has recovered the least well (in fact, still hadn't recovered ) despite being the country that most enthusiastically espoused "Austerity" does suggest somewhat a lot that Austerity as an economical policy is a pile of crock somewhat lacking

It's not us random bods on the internet, the people who won't be able to hide are Johnson, Fox, Davis, Rees-Mogg, Redwood and May herself. She will no doubt rue the day that she turned her coat. They will do their best to spin or lie their way out of it.

Sorry, posted that in the wrong thread.

Young people could lose up to £108,000 by 2050 if there is a no-deal Brexit, according to a shock new report.

The study by the Our Future, Our Choice group, which is campaigning for a fresh referendum, used the government’s own figures to calculate the total impact on income if the UK crashes out of the EU without an agreement.

The report paints a dark picture for the prospects of young people in post-Brexit Britain, predicting that 78% of 18-20 year olds will lose the right to live and work across the continent and citing polling evidence that 47% “cried or felt like crying” after the Brexit vote.

It looked at three different potential Brexit outcomes: a no deal Brexit on World Trade Organisation (WTO) tariffs; a free trade agreement (FTA) Brexit, a scenario based on the Canada’s links to the EU; or a European Economic Area (EEA) Brexit, an arrangement similar to Norway’s relationship with Brussels.

The report found that a WTO Brexit would cost a young person between £44,000 and £108,000 in terms of GDP by 2050; a FTA Brexit from £30,000 to £72,000; and EEA Brexit between £7,000 and £32,000.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/young-people-brexit-lose_uk_5bd1ec91e4b0d38b588136c6?utm_hp_ref=uk-politics

Is this the legacy that leave voters want for their children and grandchildren?

Looks like we aren't going to be able to "just trade on WTO rules" quite as easily as some thought:

uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-wto/uk-signals-failure-of-bid-for-quick-brexit-transition-at-wto-idUKKCN1MZ28D