People’s Vote Delusion

[PersonaNonGarter]

It isn’t going to happen. For the following reasons:

1. May Government won’t vote for a second referendum
2. No new post-May Tory Government will vote for a second referendum
3. Jeremy Corbyn and those in the Labour Party front benches won’t vote for a second referendum
4. There is no agreement about what the referendum would ask.
5. There is no plausible timetable for a referendum.

Why would Corbyn want a second referendum? He is a Leaver wanting to win in Leave seats. And he wants to implement his domestic agenda, not waste any further time on Brexit votes. The current situation SUITS him.

The pressure on GPpractices is largely down to GPs retiring or cutting their hours and too few young GPs coming up to replace them.

In most of Europe you have to have ID cards in some form and employment, housing, health services demand you show ID and thus entitlement to the relevant services. Although it feels like a bit of intrusion it would help in the UK so that local needs can be identified and planned for.
How would any of you feel about the proper introduction of ID in the UK?
It certainly helps 'removal' of those who may not have the right to services.

@mother
Why is it such an issue?

For some people, I think it's all to do with Us v Them. No matter how integrated, hard working or beneficial to the economy, EU citizens are foreigners like the rest and that's that. It's become a point of principle.
I was once told (half jokingly) I was the 'worst kind' of foreigner as I don't have an obvious accent and so can't be easily 'spotted' as such.
Make of that what you will.

Hesta54 Population planning isn't the same as a party invite.

Growth is predicted by experts (remember them lol!) we then build the necessary housing and facilities, we might err on the conservative side for cost reasons but the UK did nothing at all and still has its head in the sand!

We ve a political class that is totally isolated from normal life, do not use the facilities we do and frankly don't care, as they are all very wealthy.......
One reason i voted remain was that the fools who have screwed this country for the last xx years will still be in charge! having a fall back to the EU/ECJ is a safe guard for us all.

They don't even plan for things that we know will happen ie an ageing population, cuts to adult social care continue unabated.

jasjas1973 Growth is easy to predict, over the long term with existing inhabitants ( birth numbers per year ) how can you with FOM, even the labour government admitted that vast more people came here than they predicted, nor especially over 3.3 million since 2004

Motherof - Don't mix up two entirely different posters and their views. I specifically state that I want to see immigration from all over the world. I said nothing about Drs surgeries. I do feel however that we need to have a much better system so we have better control and we can ensure that we ask for the skills that we need. I would however agree that we certainly need to invest in training of many more people in the UK especially Drs. and Nurses. We really must not rely on plundering ready trained staff from other countries all the time. There are lots of by products of Brexit and I hope this can be one of them. We really need a jolt to change the current mind set which just takes the easiet route to solving staffing problems.

Growth is easy to predict, over the long term with existing inhabitants ( birth numbers per year ) how can you with FOM

For a given area growth is no easier to predict with FOM than it is without FOM. People are free to move around the country after all, and while that doesn't increase the total number of people it means that there's no way of accurately predicting demand for housing and schools in a particular area.

And of course there are more non-EU immigrants coming to the UK than there are EU immigrants taking advantage of FOM anyway. Nobody's telling them where to live either.

FishesaPlenty Yes, but we wouldn’t be adding an unknown number to a known number, ( control is what is needed, not no immigration)

control is what is needed, not no immigration

Take away FOM today and you've still got the same problem though, because they don't even use the controls that they could use.

The aspect I find most offensive by it us the name.
People's Vote?
So not content with badmouthing anyone who dared contradict their viewpoint, now those who exercised the same democratic right to vote are no longer "people".
It's possibly the most snobby name to term it. What was Brexit then? The "Plebs and chavs and beneath us" vote?

*and I voted Remain! I find it all so farcical.

People move where there are jobs. This is especially true of EU migrants, who compared with UK residents and with non-EU migrants are more likely to be of working age and in work.

If the UK can't provide school places for kids it's because of government and local planning failures not because of migrants.

My local city in France is one of the fastest growing in the country. Yet children continue to be guaranteed places at local schools, to which they have an absolute right in law. And because this is a legal requirement, local planners somehow manage to plan for it!

I’ve been assuming it’s a People’s Vote in response to the assertion that Brexit is the Will of the People, and that anyone opposing Brexit is and Enemy of the People.

Let’s just ask the people (the same people, barring those who have died, and including those who have now reached 18) whether they still want to go ahead with leaving.

@ConfusedMum82 do you think leavers would be prevented from voting?

People's vote as opposed to a vote by MPs on the final deal. Regardless of your opinion on referendums (I'm against them generally) the name seems rather neutral to me and the concept (asking people for their view on the eventual deal) rather unremarkable.

Do you usually work this hard at taking offence?

the ludicrous term 'People's Vote' is a cynical elitist attempt to indoctrinate those of a younger age into accepting the Remainer framework of thought,

ie. Remain good, Leave bad - hmm..sounds like 4 legs good, 2 legs better!

I still think the term 'Losers Vote' is more appropriate

@Mistigri "Do you usually work this hard at getting offended"
What a ridiculous thing to say!

What you describe is yet another vote. Yes, of course despite no doubt some of the more militant anti-Btexiteers who would love to ban the 52% who vote yes before from being allowed to vote again, of course these people would be allowed a vote.

Yet do you not think that some would just think, what's the point? That their original opinion didn't matter?

To have another vote would be to really enforce that. Especially since certain Remainers act like anyone who voted leave is thick.

I don't agree that May should be our PM, or the Tories in power with the DUP. However, I voted in the election, the party I wished to represent me lost, that's that. Same with my voting remain. I was disappointed but understood that we live in a democracy and we can't just re-hash votes until we get the result we personally want.
Elsewise, what next?
We get to remain next time round?
Except no, because if we Remainers expect a second roll of the dice, why wouldn't Leavers? What happens when they mobilise and see they've been silenced, and they decide to ask for a third vote?

It's never ending!

Call it what ever you want.

And if leavers want to convince young people to vote leave why not start here by giving 3 reasons leaving the EU will be beneficial in the long run.

Yes democracy is never ending, it is a continuous process.

Why the surprise?

3 pro's for leaving EU:

1. Control of borders
2. Regaining of Sovereignty
3. Potential for free trade deals

sure, you've heard it all before

it still stands

and a second ref would be rightly boycotted by anyone who believes in saving democacy

last yrs g election was the second ref, so we're actually talking about a potential 3rd ref now

{To have another vote would be to really enforce that. Especially since certain Remainers act like anyone who voted leave is thick. }

To any 'leavers' or 'remainers', having read through the many GOVERNMENT papers describing the likely effect of no deal or in fact almost any deal, do you REALLY want to go ahead with the (failure) to plan and rush headlong into the mire that will encompass the UK in 6 months time or a little over?