People’s Vote Delusion

[PersonaNonGarter]

It isn’t going to happen. For the following reasons:

1. May Government won’t vote for a second referendum
2. No new post-May Tory Government will vote for a second referendum
3. Jeremy Corbyn and those in the Labour Party front benches won’t vote for a second referendum
4. There is no agreement about what the referendum would ask.
5. There is no plausible timetable for a referendum.

Why would Corbyn want a second referendum? He is a Leaver wanting to win in Leave seats. And he wants to implement his domestic agenda, not waste any further time on Brexit votes. The current situation SUITS him.

double Look up what UKIP say about immigration and see that they are saying exactly the same thing.

See my previous comment/reference to that poster.

@jasjas1973 Vicky Pollard has taken over, innit?

Sacrebleu that’s quite snobbish! However as this comment was written by a remainer no one has objected.

estimates are that there are 1500 sleeping in forests around the town.

For all the outrage in the UK, relatively few migrants have reached the UK by the channel ports route, and the UK ranks as one of the EU countries least affected by migration from the Middle East and North Africa since 2012.

Attitudes in this respect have nothing to do with actual migration and everything to do with racism.

@Doubletrouble99

You ve not answered why you think 100s of 1000s of non white/Christian migrants will be beneficial to the UK?

I think it matters very much where people come from e.g taking Med /Young engineers etc from countries that are developing is morally wrong: why should treating wealthy Brits be more important than them staying in their own countries and caring/building up their own peoples/economies?

As we can all see, its very easy for EU workers to integrate and/or return home, it would be considerably harder for migrants from Asia/Africa to integrate/return if they wanted or had too.

UKIP? are you for real? the Leave campaigns made a big deal on Turkey joining the EU ie non white/non Christian and fat big 74million arrow heading straight for the UK!

Twofingers - 'that' poster was a load of shit, dreamt up by some idiot pandering to the most racist among UKIP supports. It does not reflect the views stated in their support for the government's recent announcements.

As for the fact that FOM is reciprocal, well there are loads of reciprocal agreements for students to study all over the world so why should Brexit change the situation in the EU? The fact that loads of pensioners like to retire to the sun shouldn't mean we can't change our immigration policy.

Then of course, we are told that Brexit wasn't about immigration!
Why are Leavers unable to convince me?

The doctors and dentists surgeries in my town would not be able to keep open unless they had FoM. The UK born doctors are choosing to retire early - not that I blame them, but it's nothing to do with the EU.

And as these migrants are from outwith the EU, doing away with FOM won’t have any effect anyway?

FOM is reciprocal, but as you can see by figures published only a very few U.K. nationals ( apart from holidays ) make use of it and a large proportion of them are retired Oap’s on a permanent holiday,

This is hogwash. Many British migrants in the EU are working age or are students. We don't know the exact figures but here in France I'd guesstimate that at least three quarters of permanently resident Britons are working age.

there are loads of reciprocal agreements for students to study all over the world so why should Brexit change the situation in the EU

Which will all need renegotiating again.

I looked at DCs studying in Dublin - there are low fees for anyone that has been resident in an EEA country for a period of time.

But the UK won’t be an EEA country so UK students will pay full whack as international students until a new agreement is made.

@Doubletrouble99

Still cannot answer then?

Buteo Out of a total of 1.3 million living in the EU 900,000 are long term residents, 300,00 are oap’s living in Spain etc, compared to over 3.3 m in the UK

"immigrants" (especially from the EU) registering at a local practice might actually be good for it. The practice will get extra money for them and they will use the service less than the existing UK citizens.

Plus they will be helping to subsidise the "native" UK citizens.

Peregrina I don’t blame them either with the work load pressure, In my area we have the same two surgeries but population has risen by 18% in the last 5-10 years,

prettybird Yes if the surgery has spare capacity and is not under pressure already, it takes along time to enlarge a surgery, planning, finance, build, etc

Hesta54

Think you’re addressing the wrong person.

I’m talking about students, not UK citizens resident in the EU.

So can I just clarify, the objection is that 1.3 million Brits live in the rest of the EU and 3.3 million EU citizens live here, and therefore that is not fair and why we have to torch the economy?

....and whose fault is that?

At least the EU migrants are making a positive contribution to the economy - which is more than can be said for the "natives", who will also use the service more. It's up to the Government to distribute that extra contribution.

We ve had 14 years, at least, to increase NHS/GP capacity in the UK (FOM began in 2004)
The Tories via austerity took away the hardship funds for areas most affected by immigration and have scrapped med bursaries.

No party is realistically promising less migration, Brexit just means we ve less tax take to address these issues.

In the area where I live in France we are all 'around 60 or over' and most work part time to supplement early pensions, having already bought property. Full time salaried jobs are scarce in this area though.

We may be forced into a second referendum, regardless of the political choices of UK politicians.

Currently, it looks like we are entering into the indefinite 'transition period' that some people predicted. May isn't doing much to move along the Brexit talks, and it's only thanks to the EU bending the rules about the A50 timeline that we're not being held to the original deadline.

At some point, it's highly possible that the EU will say that we can keep extending the transition period only in return for a new referendum. In which case, it doesn't matter much what UK politicians think.

May is essentially a remainer, as is anyone with a brain. I still have not encountered an actual coherent argument in favour of Brexit - and in my professional life I hang around mostly with philosophers and political scientists (i.e. people you'd expect to be able to formulate such an argument if there was one). The Leave argument is, and always has been, name-calling ('Remoaners') and spouting meaningless soundbites like 'Brexit means Brexit' and 'the people have spoken'.

prettybird Why shouldn’t the natives use the service more, they and their parents would have contributed to the system over many decades

I'm not saying that they shouldn't . I'm just pointing out that they aren't the ones making the nett contribution. It is them that are being subsidised by the EU immigrants (as demonstrated by the Government's own statistics).

TidyLike You hang around with people that are very unlucky to feel the negative effects of mass unskilled immigration and no I don’t think immigration is wrong it should be controlled better and allowances made for areas with already high levels of immigrants

jasjas1973 How can the government plan properly when it doesn’t know how many people are going to take advantage of FOM,
You can’t just build hospitals on a whim, it’s a bit like having a party expecting to feed 12 and 50 turn up, not enough seats, food drink etc