Westministenders: The Slow Reveal

[RedToothBrush]

The DUP are playing silly buggers.
The EU are getting nervous and turning down the pressure.
The ERG still want Schroedingers Brexit.
The Budget is coming. So is a government defeat or climb down.
The M26 is closing.

Keep thinking of the glorious freedom your blue passport will give up whilst you search waste tips.

Which bit of " frictionless trade requires both membership of the CU and the SM" do they not understand?

Look at Norway (in the SM but not the CU) and Turkey (in the CU but not the SM).

Neither has frictionless trade

Sooner or later someone has to ask:
When does the mandate for Leave expire?

I didn't spot that, Pretzels 
Yes, like all parties, they sell women down the river
Our place is always behind any group of men

When does the mandate for Leave expire
I have a feeling that's what we're just finding out.
Up to 3rd question on avoiding 'no deal' just taken place.

Is it me, or are most MPS backing:
CU/SM
PV
Avoidance of no deal?

She looks forlorn.

Probably not even a coalition of 2 or more parties, but just a confidence & supply arrangement for Brexit only, at least to get the WA through,
maybe also to deal with the aftermath

Even just a cross-party agreement with a GE - say after May is toppled, to avoid another GE and hung parliament

That's very interesting, pretty
So even if the WA left it open for the trade deal to be EEA /EFTA, you think the SNP would still vote it down ?

Sooner or later someone has to ask: When does the mandate for Leave expire?

I asked that in 2016, last year, and this year. According to Brexiteers (where are they, by the way ???) the answer is "never". Seas may boil. Lands may rise and fall. The heat death of the universe. Nothing can outlive "THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE*.

I think calling Brexiteers morons and cretins for that sentiment alone is justified.

Speaking of shy Brexiteers, I notice on another forum I use, home to quite lively debate, that a few new posters have registered, asked some seemingly sensible questions about Brexit, and then descended into arguing with everyone about how brilliant Brexit will be (sound familiar ?).

She looks forlorn.
I'd feel sorry for her if this hadn't really been largely her own giant mess.

She should just agree the draft terms with the backstop and challenge the HoC to vote it down
Even if it pisses off NI Unionists the DUP, Scotland, London etc

Crashing out without a deal would be a disaster that would hit every area
and would probably lead to the breakup of the UK anyway

Why aren't our Leaver friends on this thread? You would think they would be out in force, either to crow about the end in sight or to tell us about democracy.

Alternatively, let NI vote on no deal vs checks for GB imports - one way only and NOT the same as a border
The DUP don't speak for all Unionists and certainly not for Nationalists
There might well be a majority in NI for that

I think the fact that even the prospect of a EEA/EFTA scenarios still result in a detrimental effect on the Scottish economy means that the SNP would feel obliged to vote against it.

However, I suppose that it's not outwith the bounds of possibility for them to be bribed persuaded with the promise of a Section 30 notice to allow another Indyref - but that would have to be signed in blood off before they voted anything through.

I suspect even the most enthusiastic Leaver must be embarassed by the total chaos over Brexit

Although on a recent thread a couple of them were still claiming that the govt had "brilliant minds" and there was "a special plan"

and would probably lead to the breakup of the UK anyway

To be honest, I think too much has happened for there to be any route back - for anyone, anything, or anywhere. The political fabric of the UK has been torn asunder, and cannot be repaired. Even if Brexit were to somehow be cancelled TODAY, there are businesses that will not return. People - whole families that will not return (some of them having felt hounded out of their own country). Skills lost - maybe forever. And the Union ? The precious "Union" ? It's hard to see Scotlands and Northern Irelands relationship with England in the Union ever being the same. Both peoples have been told in no uncertain terms that when it comes to the Union they are very much the unemancipated woman in that marriage.

This is the country I was born in. This is the country I grew up in. And now this is a foreign land .

Why aren't our Leaver friends on this thread?

Something about bullying/abuse/etc is the usual explanation. Often right before they launch into a multi-post rant full of effing and blinding .

To be honest, I think too much has happened for there to be any route back - for anyone, anything, or anywhere. The political fabric of the UK has been torn asunder, and cannot be repaired.

I agree

The political fabric of the UK has been torn asunder, and cannot be repaired.

If T.S Eliot can quote himself, so can I. (You'd never believe I failed Eng. Lit ...)

With that in mind, rather than pratting about trying to fix what's broken, is there not a case for a new mandate - a new framework - a new contract between government and people ? Because right now, I'm feeling rather shortchanged by the social contract which seems to be terribly one-sided.

@faisalislam
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* Dominic Grieve: “in no circumstances will I be able to back the government unless this is put to the people again” saying the Government’s solution bears no resemblance to what was put to Britain at the time of the referendum

Dominic Grieve: “in no circumstances will I be able to back the government unless this is put to the people again” saying the Government’s solution bears no resemblance to what was put to Britain at the time of the referendum

Shame it took him 2 years to say what people were saying teh day after the referendum. Who write his speeches. Southern Rail ?

Sam Coates Times @SamCoatesTimes
Nigel Dodds, DUP Wesminster chief, asks for a guarantee NI will never be left in the single market or customs union and the U.K. leaves as one.

Theresa May gives a lengthy answer, that isn’t a clean “yes”

When she sits down, Dodds shakes his head

Given this answer, it does look like TM may try and face down the DUP on backstop regulatory arrangements

Seems to me there will be no Brexit agreement without a backstop.

The backstop is killing the Tories, the DUP and TM.

So place your bets now on what will happen.

BTW, Theresa May in the Commons was a total waste of time. Nothing new, and no one seems to be supporting her either. What a joke this all is, if it wasn't so serious for all of us.

Dominic Raab looks increasingly like a man whose brexit fantasy has just hit Michel Barniers wall of reality. He's suddenly finding out that it's easy to spout off soundboard but hard to actually do the work.

www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/brexiteer-tories-say-theresa-mays-deadlock-with-the-eu-is-a?utm_source=dynamic&utm_campaign=bfsharetwitter&utm_term=.xg8wrMpGd
Brexiteer Tories Say Theresa May’s Deadlock With The EU Is A “Charade” To Help Her Cling On

"Every step along the way she has talked tough, misled colleagues, and then folded," a senior Eurosceptic MP told BuzzFeed News. "The trouble is no one believes her anymore.”

Four leading Conservative Eurosceptics told BuzzFeed News they believed Number 10 was using the breakdown in talks to stave off a slew of cabinet resignations and keep her Brexit proposals alive until a special EU summit expected in November.

and

But Tory Brexiteers said the impasse was simply an attempt to avoid a cabinet revolt this week and keep the show on the road through this week's European Council summit in Brussels until the real crunch moment in November.

By that point, the Brexiteers fear, Downing Street will have wound down the clock long enough to argue that it is late to change course, allowing May to make concessions to EU on the backstop and present MPs with a choice of her deal or no deal.

Which is pretty much what we've said needs to happen for May to force a deal through parliament. She has no choice but to do that at this point.