Westministenders: The Slow Reveal

[RedToothBrush]

The DUP are playing silly buggers.
The EU are getting nervous and turning down the pressure.
The ERG still want Schroedingers Brexit.
The Budget is coming. So is a government defeat or climb down.
The M26 is closing.

Keep thinking of the glorious freedom your blue passport will give up whilst you search waste tips.

@BigChocFrenzy

I think I need to give my emotional support peacock a cuddle.

The confidentiality agreement is on the same line than what happened when Nissan went to see the government way back in 2016....

Thanks red.

My usual passivity continues. Maybe partly because i have an LD mp who is reasonably vocal anti brexit.

I have to say im not fearing a repeat of the windrush scandal for eu citizens.
Except, we are living in scary times with scary people in charge. Many many voters wouldn't see this as a problem and are all for mass deportation. I think we underestimate the levels of racism in the UK.

Why would the RHA, other industry bodies, or the heads of logistics companies voluntarily sign an NDA if they weren't engaging in contracts with the Government? Would it be just in return for having the discussions that Govt should be having with them anyway? I.e. "we're not telling you anything unless you sign an NDA"?

If that's the case then what could possibly be the consequences of ignoring the NDA? Nothing criminal surely?

Many many voters wouldn't see this as a problem and are all for mass deportation.

Until they came for them, and there was no one left to speak for them!
It's frightening how history appears to be repeating itself.

What consequences would they face
We're not in Kansas anymore.

what could possibly be the consequences of ignoring the NDA? Nothing criminal surely?

It would be a civil issue, a breach of contract. But would the gov bother suing with all the fuss going on? I doubt it.Also they'd have to prove a loss that could be recoverable to make it worthwhile. The RHA probably isn't worth huge sums to make it worth a government suing it?

It's the whole modus operandi that's unprecedented. This government likes to proceed in cloak and dagger secret wars. It's not honourable statesmanship.

Examples include:
•The elusive impact assessments. Only revealed when forced- then kept in a secret room to be viewed with no phones allowed.

•Secret meetings with Nissan at the outset.

•The NDAs, didn't even the portaloo contract have an NDA?

By contrast the EU put their impact assessments publicly on their website.

Also, wouldn't it be politically toxic to sue over breach of contract on this issue?

sue over breach of contract
What evidence is there that rule of law still applies on these islands?

kenn my point is that I KNOW there will be a repeat of the windrush scandal with Eu citizens.....
For me, there is no maybe or if.

I think the not caring might not even be about racism but rather about arrogance and feeling above all those people who aren’t british (or maybe just english??) and therefore do not matter.

All the reports about what’s happening in immigration centres have been known for years. It was already like this at the time of the referendum. But somehow it has always struggled to make any headlines or to provoke a reaction - from politicians or form the public.
I dont think it’s going to change.
(That’s why btw, just after the referendum, I was expecting the government to do exactly what it laid out a few weeks ago regarding eu immigration...)

I’ve alwys though that mass deportation wouldn’t happen because of the backlash the U.K. wouod Get from the international community.

However, I can see the uk doing that in a sly way. Aka saying it won’t and all settled eu citizens can stay an then adding more and more rules (but not advertising them), having issues with their database and loosing information etc.... and then sending people away because they are clearly illegal immigrants.
Amd british people not reacting, because well... they’re not british are they?? Amd if they have been staying for so long in the uk, why didn’t they get the British citizenship anyway? (Which is what I have been told in MN during the referendum btw)

British people not reacting, because they don't question and don't bother to inform themselves of what is happening. There are plenty like that on MN, as well as the out and out racists.

Going back to the NDA orders,if it all goes tits up as many of us expect, one of the questions people will ask, is why didn't you speak out? Why, when you saw it coming?

Mother this will also be because someone will have used a very strict definition of what been settled means.

There are numerous cases of people who stop work, for example to care for their british partner, and then want to claim some benefits only to be told thatbthey cant because they are not residing legally in the country - aka they weren’t working.

My advice to that young guy would be to get PR as he would be entitled to it as someone younger than 21yo. Obvioulsy he will need to do it pretty quick because from 21yo, you then have to apply as an adult who has just come to the uk (so you need to work or have an income plus private insurance etc...)

But that’s what I mean by doing things on the sly.... and having rules that are such that quite a lot of people can fall through the net.

Breach of contract? What contract? With no money changing hands the 'consideration' is the 'value' of the information exchanged and in the absence of a penalty clause any damages for breach would be based on the value of the 'loss' caused by any breach.

If such a penalty clause existed then rather than hearing "we've been forced to sign a non-disclosure agreement" I'd expect to hear an outraged "they've refused to discuss the situation with us unless we agree to ridiculous punitive conditions". These are businessmen after all.

{The RHA and the NDAs - can't they just leak the info like every other bugger does?}
Leaving notes or a laptop is an offence in most companies but it used to be standard policy for government.
Ministers coming out of meetings with documents NOT neatly tucked away, walking so that reporters might get a picture.

EU version of Windrush? The EU is now very aware of the Windrush scandal and unless EU citizens truly 'disappeared', bearing in mind many are professionals whose absence from work would be noticed, the EU would create a hell of a stink.

But that’s what I mean by doing things on the sly....

Like abolishing the extra nine months you could have if you renewed your passport early. They say it's to comply with ICAO rules, but if that is so, why not publish the information beforehand? Why sneak it through, and have people grumbling on Martin Lewis's Money saving expert pages?

the EU would create a hell of a stink.

You would hope they would say 'the deal is off'. Cue the Leavers whining about EU bullying.

EU citizen are not going to ‘disappear’. They’ll be sent home. Like this young polish guy who will/could be told he doesn’t meet the criteria for immigration/settled status so have to go back to his own country...

NDA's come under contract law? Been a long time since I looked at contract law, fishes but looks like misrepresentation.

It is, however, a clear breach of the ECHR fishes .
We are still, signatories to it.

Asian teenager beaten and her headscarf grabbed during racist attack in Bethnal Green
Twatsby is liable for incitement.
www.eastlondonadvertiser.co.uknews/crime-court/asian-woman-beaten-in-tower-hamlets-1-5731652

farridge and lennon liable for so much too.

WIthout functioning rule of law, it's no wonder businesses are voting with their feet.

I find the NDA thing very odd. Surely it would be the official secrets act? If there were state security reasons for not disclosing the information to the public?

Perhaps the companies involved are worried that if they break the NDA they will be frozen out of any contingency planning or will be last in the queue for government help when the shit hits the fan.

This is typical TM though. She just wants to do things on her own and present them as a fait accompli so that nothing can be challenged or altered. I think the government still thinks the EU will cave and give them what they want, that's why the contingency planning is so half arsed.

I am enjoying all our recent prime ministers coming out and calling out the failures of our current parliament. I am also enjoying, in a schadenfreude kind of way, IDS moaning that the universal credit stuff isn't his fault, he knows that UC and the fuck up that is brexit will be the main points in his obituary.

Sorry, I put it too bluntly.
I was meaning that if EU nationals were to be 'encouraged to leave' by foul means, the embassies will now be clued up and pressure groups, even FB /??? would highlight it. The issue of rights has been publicised widely over this whole affair, unlike the days of Windrush when only a few would really think about it.

This is helpful on NDAs.

www.carrferrell.com/what-is-a-non-disclosure-agreement

But the point is when a government cloaks itself in secrecy like never before accountability fades too.