Westministenders: The Slow Reveal

[RedToothBrush]

The DUP are playing silly buggers.
The EU are getting nervous and turning down the pressure.
The ERG still want Schroedingers Brexit.
The Budget is coming. So is a government defeat or climb down.
The M26 is closing.

Keep thinking of the glorious freedom your blue passport will give up whilst you search waste tips.

It would be a civil issue, a breach of contract. But would the gov bother suing with all the fuss going on? I doubt it.Also they'd have to prove a loss that could be recoverable to make it worthwhile. The RHA probably isn't worth huge sums to make it worth a government suing it?

The current prime minister is Theresa May, who has a track record of going to court over issues which are ridiculous and appear to serve no other purpose but to be vindictive and intimidating others who might consider challenging the state. At great cost to the taxpayer whilst costing the other side a huge amount of money.

Are you sure she wouldn't go legal?

Outsourcing and pfi are closely associated with virtually every big government scandal of recent times.

* ...a track record of going to court over issues which are ridiculous and appear to serve no other purpose but to be vindictive and intimidating others who might consider challenging the state. At great cost to the taxpayer whilst costing the other side a huge amount of money*

True- fighting the appeal in the Article 50 case was simply absurd as legally and morally it was obvious that Parliamentary process should be followed.

On the subject of which sadly Gina Miller's end the chaos campaign seems to have only attracted 2,000 likes on FB after a couple of weeks. So that's disappointing.

Gina Miller's campaign was doomed to fail from the off. It was competing with other already established pro-remain campaigns and as an advertising strategy 'end the chaos' was always going to end bad. I'm not unsurprised.

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SingingBabooshkaBadly

Re: my colleagues ..

So, they voted to become one of those neighbouring countries for whom life is not so glorious? Well thought out?

Their logic was with a heavyweight like the UK on the outside of the UK, there would be a "better balance".

Now there is a sense in that, and if we'd had a nice civilised Brexit, it might even have worked. But as I have said - before and after the vote.

If you go into a polling booth and see that you are voting for the same thing as the likes of UKIP and EDL then you really need to look at your life choices

This is why - despite my merciless contempt for Brexiteers - it's still a little hard to warm to intelligent leavers. Because voting with UKIP for anything ain't that intelligent. And they can't claim "they didn't know", or "had no idea".

EU version of Windrush? The EU is now very aware of the Windrush scandal and unless EU citizens truly 'disappeared', bearing in mind many are professionals whose absence from work would be noticed, the EU would create a hell of a stink.

I repeat my comparison between the behaviour of Idi Amin, and the current government causing the EU to proceed with great caution. Their overriding concern will be the well being of UK resident EU citizens after Brexit - too many to evacuate...

Since Germany and a couple of other countries managed to 'dissipate' around a million migrants of various forms, the EU as a whole would be fine to repatriate up to 3 million, particularly under the circumstances.

Depending on how negotiations go in the next few weeks many more EU in UK may decide it is too risky and so leave anyway, especially if businesses are leaving the UK , there is a likelihood some would relocate with the jobs.

You know who else makes government officials sign NDAs with himself? Trump. Say no more.

www.washingtonpost.com/politics/everyone-signed-one-trump-is-aggressive-in-his-use-of-nondisclosure-agreements-even-in-government/2018/08/13/9d0315ba-9f15-11e8-93e3-24d1703d2a7a_story.html

Yep. My parents have decided that things were too risky already.

The only thing that I is keeping me here is the fact that it’s the worst time for my dcs education (GCSE year) and the fact they wouldn't be ‘going back home’ as they are born in the U.K. but going into a foreign country. I would only do that if things are really really shit and dangerous (for me and for them, even though they have the dual citizenship).
I’m not planning to stay after they are both at Uni though....

I think that if you want to stay in the uk, the only safe way to do it is to take the British citizenship (and even then, having dual citizenship means they could well still kick you out and take said citizenship away anyway...)

I think it’s worth thinking about what we are talking about here exactly. I am not aware if any other democratic country, bar some unstable or dictorship type of countries, where you would plan for the possibility to see your citizenship taken away or to be kicked out of the country in mass.

It’s bad. Very bad.

E.g. my dentist and his wife have gone. Both EU citizens, with the wife working for the EMA and my dentist bringing forward his retirement.
His daughter and Son in law, also both EU citizens have relocated away from the UK too. So that's 4 people that I know, just in my own circle.
My dentist and his wife would have gone, but it would have been more like 5 - 7 years hence.

I’m not worried about 3 millions people going back to the EU because they wouod be going ‘back home’.
The situation is very different and will create a very different sentiment than when talking about (illegal?) immigrants from Syria.

In France they are already talking about ‘les réfugiés du brexit’ (the refugees of Brexit)

Place marking, with all due thanks to Red as ever.

And YY about the comparaison with Trump too...
Two situations where a dictatorship is settling down imo.

I’m not worried about 3 millions people going back to the EU because they wouod be going ‘back home’.

But they won't all, will they? They will be taking a lot of spouses and children with them, who may not even know the other country. Although with a spouse, at least you have some sort of toe-hold, unlike refugees.

KenDodd I may have to start a thread on emotional support animals for Brexit, instead of for planes

• I'll leave it until April, so it can comfort more leavers too

Someone who arrived 40 years ago and settled, may have few connections left alive in their country of origin
and that country would have massively changed - it would be foreign to them.

Pensions would also be an issue, as someone who has planned their UK retirement might have to lose the last few crucial years of a private pension,

e.g. if they lose council housing, can't rent privately, NHS access - all of which happened in Windrush
and then return to their country of origin to live on UK pensions that

a) will have devalued 15 / 25 / 35 % - who knows where Sterling will end after a Brexit crashout
b) will have income reduced by being unable to make the last few years contributions
c) may not be able to start until 65 / 66 so they have nothing to live on and won't qualify for state benefits in their "new" country

and it's not that unusual at age 60+ to be coping with signifivcant visual, hearing, mobility issues
which make adapting to what is basically a foreign country - and trying to earn a living - v v difficult

Parents of DC with British citizenship may have to choose between wrecking their education, boarding them with friends, or taking them to a country whre they will take years to learn the language properly

Before age 7, kids catch up v quickly
After that, it takes at least a couple of years to be as fluent as the native speakers
and at age 14, some kids won't catch up in time for the big exams leading to uni
Their start in life will be delayed

It is a bit problematic trying to express things on here because there are so many difficult things going on at once so you can't generalise.
There are some on MN who have been digging out Irish ancestry to get an Irish passport, who may have never been to Ireland.
EU nationals that were settled in the UK will have right to return to the EU but again may not have lived there long so only the UK is really 'home'.

Someone who arrived 40 years ago and settled, may have few connections left alive in their country of origin
and that country would have massively changed - it would be foreign to them.

That's exactly our position. We've got so used to living here that it would be quite an upheaval to move back to DW's home country. Plus age-related issues. And we're not the social animals we used to be!

I am very worried about pension rights. Having acquired some years in the EU ans some in the UK, I just do not know what is going to happen.

My home is where my family is and they are English. Although I have property in my home country, just in case.

www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/1tn-wiped-off-public-sector-since-2008-leaves-uk-public-finances-among-weakest-in-world/10/10/

An IMF report has concluded that the UK’s public finances are some of the worst on the planet.
Since the banking crash of 2008 nearly £1tn has been slashed from the public sector, which is 50% of GDP.

So basically the U.K. is in a shit position, even wo Brexit.....