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Brexit

Westministenders: The Slow Reveal

991 replies

RedToothBrush · 10/10/2018 23:16

The DUP are playing silly buggers.
The EU are getting nervous and turning down the pressure.
The ERG still want Schroedingers Brexit.
The Budget is coming. So is a government defeat or climb down.
The M26 is closing.

Keep thinking of the glorious freedom your blue passport will give up whilst you search waste tips.

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BigChocFrenzy · 13/10/2018 16:11

Yes, pretty it's amazing the silence on the fact that May is clearly dominated by the DUP,
which only has a few 1000 members (compared to the SNP's 110k)

Papers and Unionist commentators saying the DUP want May to go now

  • the arrogance, the power they think they have - or may indeed have, with enough sympathisers like Gove

www.thesun.co.uk/news/7484404/theresa-may-brexit-irish-backstop-dilemma/

RELATIONS between Theresa May and the DUP, upon whom she relies for her Commons majority, are at sub-zero levels.
Things are so bad that one senior DUP figure has told influential Tory MPs that he wants her gone by November.

Peregrina · 13/10/2018 16:29

Things are so bad that one senior DUP figure has told influential Tory MPs that he wants her gone by November.

If that happened we might hope for a Confidence vote, and Corbyn trying to form a minority administration, and someone somewhere knocking some sense into Parliament and saying, let us have a cross party coalition like the war time one. And pause Brexit. Yes, pigs might fly.

BigChocFrenzy · 13/10/2018 16:37

It's not what the DUP piggies intend ... but they might blunder into it, as they are very silly piggies

BigChocFrenzy · 13/10/2018 16:38

Very corrupt piggies too.

(former Tory PM) Ted Heath's pithy comment on Unionists:

"more loyal to the half-crown than The Crown"

BigChocFrenzy · 13/10/2018 17:00

Man to be removed from UK so ill Home Office will send four medics on flight

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/13/home-office-sending-medics-to-accompany-man-on-removal-flight-australia-three-stokes

DGRossetti · 13/10/2018 17:07

Man to be removed from UK so ill Home Office will send four medics on flight

and after seeing Jews shot in Minsk, Himmler asked the SS to come up with better ways to preserve the morale of the soldiers ...

www.holocaustresearchproject.org/einsatz/himmlerinminsk.html

BigChocFrenzy · 13/10/2018 17:18

From May's "Citizens of Nowhere" speech:

“Today, too many people in positions of power behave as though they have more in common with international elites
than with the people down the road, the people they employ, the people they pass on the street

... but if you believe you are a citizen of the world,
you are a citizen of nowhere.
You don’t understand what citizenship means.”

Who gave a similar speech ?
Here's one:

“[the] clique ... people who are at home both nowhere and everywhere, who do not have anywhere a soil on which they have grown up,
but who live in Berlin today, in Brussels tomorrow, Paris the day after that, and then again in Prague or Vienna or London,
and who feel at home everywhere”.

.... yes, that was Hitler in 1933

May should have been more careful

BigChocFrenzy · 13/10/2018 18:29

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/oct/11/may-seeks-cabinet-support-for-indefinite-customs-union

The EU’s chief negotiator, Michel Barnier, told the European commission president and other commissioners in a private meeting on Wednesday that
the principles of an agreement on the Irish border are largely accepted by both sides.
< IFF May stays in office and IFF she can get it through the HoC)

woman11017 · 13/10/2018 18:44

In the olden days, the SWP and the NF were on the fringes of our democracy.

Now, not so much.

Anti-fascists block route of Democratic Football Lads Alliance London march

Police form barrier between groups after supporters of rightwing DFLA fight police officers

www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/13/anti-fascists-block-route-of-democratic-football-lads-alliance-london-march

Jews, journalists and anti-racism campaigners are among 10 people banned from event starring Labour's shadow Chancellor John McDonnell

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6264637/Jews-anti-racism-campaigners-banned-Labour-event-starring-shadow-Chancellor-John-McDonnell.html

RedToothBrush · 13/10/2018 18:45

Mark Wallace @wallaceme
Exclusive: A candidate shortage strikes Conservative target seats

At least one constituency has refused to shortlist due to insufficient number/quality of applicants, and has asked CCHQ to reopen applications. Another has to redo the process after two of its three finalists were selected elsewhere.

www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2018/10/a-candidate-shortage-strikes-conservative-selections-in-target-seats.html

Beth Rigby @BethRigby
This is quite something. Terrible reading for CCHQ. All feeds into a narrative that party needs a re-boot after Brexit and May isn’t the one for the job

And this is why we have a problem with the current crop of MPs. I don't believe it is just the Conservatives having a problem.

This is a dangerous state of affairs.

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woman11017 · 13/10/2018 18:51

Not looking good. I wonder if 20.10 will be permitted.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6272589/March-Democratic-Football-Lads-Alliance-turns-violent-marcher-yells-Ill-kill-you.html

borntobequiet · 13/10/2018 18:56

I think 20/10 will be very very big.
Interesting that the BBC were reporting on the Berlin marches today in breathless tones: 100 000 people!
Wonder what they’ll be saying in a week’s time (if anything).

Annandale · 13/10/2018 19:10

Sorry if this isn't interesting. I have pretty much decided not to go on the people's vote march. I know that i thought having a referendum was a terrible idea and near to unconstitutional, and nothing ive seen since has changed my mind. I dont want a people's vote. The situation is so finely balanced it could tip things over towards no deal or unrest. I dislike that i think this as many people i admire disagree, but i can't honestly campaign for it.

woman11017 · 13/10/2018 19:13

This is a dangerous state of affairs
The 'expenses' scandal was such a peculiar affair. Spearheaded by Dacre et al: Imprisonments of MPs and retrospective rule changes.
www.theguardian.com/politics/2009/oct/15/harriet-harman-mps-expenses

£70k is a vast wage.
But not in London.
£25k for a London annual rental is normal/ moderate.
Add in 5-10k travel costs.( tube/ train/ out of hours taxis)
What with the expenses crack down, a tricky financial situation.

Plus the death threats and actual assassination, it's easy to see why no one wants to do it, unless they have organisations with sturdy pockets and boots watching their back.

Who would that benefit from an impotent legislature. Hmm

annandale fair enough. If the march is allowed to go ahead it might be the last one we're allowed to have.

Westministenders: The Slow Reveal
RedToothBrush · 13/10/2018 19:18

Remember the murder last week of the Bulgarian Journalist...

....well:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/murky-business-behind-death-of-bulgarian-journalist-viktoria-marinova-zl55tl66f?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1539439665
Murky business behind death of journalist Viktoria Marinova

Was this a random attack or the silencing of a TV host delving into corruption with links to Britain?

While the true reasons remain unknown, The Times can reveal that two British companies are linked to a network of Bulgarian businesses allegedly involved in the corruption which featured in Marinova’s final report.

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RedToothBrush · 13/10/2018 19:22

How difficult would it be for the right-wingers (or even the left-wingers) to move away from democracy, to keep themselves in power?

Very.

And I think we are about to see it happen.

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KennDodd · 13/10/2018 19:22

It didn't say how many attended the DFLA march, anyone know?

I'm sure 20/10 will go ahead. There have been several anti Brexit marches with not a single bit of trouble as far as I know. As a friend of mine said 'of course there's no trouble, we're the nice people'.

BigChocFrenzy · 13/10/2018 19:38

Kenn Reports indicate 1,500 - 2,000 on the march and about the same on the anti-Nazi counter-march
For all the fuss, pretty small numbers compared to Remain events

BigChocFrenzy · 13/10/2018 19:42

Worrying trend: Powerful governments kidnapping & murdering opponents abroad - with impunity

China, Russian especially

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/10/jamal-khashoggi-disappearance-trend-fight

Rarely have the basic rules governing relations between states been so wilfully, blatantly and frequently disregarded.
It’s a problem that should concern everybody – because everybody is at risk.
...
Reagan’s “snatch and grab” operations inaugurated the modern-day practice of state abduction, leading ineluctably to extraordinary rendition.
They set a fateful precedent.
...
When it comes to kidnappings and abductions, Saudi Arabia is minor-league compared to big players such as China and Russia.

Xi Jinping’s regime in Beijing stands accused of a “global kidnapping campaign”,
targeting Chinese nationals living abroad whom it deems political dissidents or security threats.
Many such cases, such as the persecution of Taiwan citizens in mainland China, go largely unreported.
...
“Beijing’s policy of forcibly repatriating people it considers Chinese nationals
– some of whom are in fact citizens of other countries –
appears to be accelerating

“Powerful businessmen, ex-Chinese Communist party officials, dissidents, and activists have all been targeted
as part of what western intelligence officials say appears to be a large-scale campaign.”

Russia’s overseas conspiracies against exiled opponents have a habit of turning lethal.

The attempted poisoning in Salisbury of Sergei Skripal, the former Russian intelligence agent
who Vladimir Putin last week denounced as a “scumbag” and “traitor”,
recalled the assassination in London of Alexander Litvinenko in 2006.

But these scandals are dwarfed, in scale, by Russian actions in occupied Crimea, where there have been dozens of unexplained, unnerving disappearances since 2014.

The growing willingness of states to launch extra-territorial operations is not simply a matter of unscrupulous leaders following the US’s example.

It reflects a more general loss of respect for international law and for the much-battered, much-lamented “global rules-based order”.

It is one, dire manifestation of the many negative consequences of the ongoing collapse of the postwar, collective UN security system,
to which irresponsible populist-nationalists such as Donald Trump are actively contributing.

Khashoggi’s disappearance shows what can happen when the primacy of the law breaks down,
and
far from fighting to restore it, democratically elected leaders and governments connive in, or turn a blind eye to, the dictators and despots who are responsible.

Similarly blatant outrages are occurring every day, and every day go unpunished.

woman11017 · 13/10/2018 19:54

small numbers funny stuff has been happening in london in the last few years.

Pales in comparison to the anti racist actions Germany put on today though. Smile Flowers .100 000? Smile

RedToothBrush · 13/10/2018 20:20

Worrying trend: Powerful governments kidnapping & murdering opponents abroad - with impunity

God yes.

People on the streets is a reassuring sign.

Its when it stops you worry.

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Icantreachthepretzels · 13/10/2018 20:20

I don't really want a people's vote Annandale - I agree it could go badly wrong. I want the govt to do their job and call off the whole thing as it the biggest self inflicted wound a country has ever committed upon itself.

However they will not do that by themselves. They need to see that the people are not behind their version of brexit, that we are not happy at having our lives and our futures held hostage to their infighting. They need to see that there is growing discontent and that there are massive numbers of people out there who will hold them accountable for what they do now.
So I'm going to march. To show my discontent. To show that they do not have my support. To show that I want brexit stopped.

A people's vote is actually the cowards way out - and maybe they will go for it because they are cowards. But I'm marching, not because I believe in or want the vote, but because they have to see that what they are doing is not 'the will of the people' and clinging to that mantra grows more anti-democratic day after day.

Even if it doesn't stop them in their tracks, even if it doesn't get us a vote - a big crowd might at least steer them towards a softer and less destructive brexit. When you enter negotiations you start by asking for more than you think you can get - that's how I see this march. It probably won't deliver what it's asking for - but it will send a clear message to the people in power and maybe influence what they do with regards to the deal.

If the govt choose to grant us a second vote, it won't be because of the march - it will because it behoves them to do so. We will get one if they decide they want us to have one (that's why we had the ref in the first place - I certainly didn't want it!) and no number of marches or petitions will change that. But seeing the vast number of unhappy people may influence them to do better than they have been doing. It reminds them of how precarious their position is if everything goes tits up.

Asking for a vote on the deal is simply expedient as it (in theory) stops people bleating on about us wanting to overturn a 'democratic' referendum. I'm sure some people do really want a second vote - though I expect most people on the march would much prefer it to all just go away. I view it as a march imploring them to just stop the fuckwittery, with 'people's vote' being used as a handy mantra to counteract 'will of the people' .

borntobequiet · 13/10/2018 20:32

What pretzels said ^

BigChocFrenzy · 13/10/2018 20:40

Yup, pretzels The big turnouts worry the govt that they'll be in deep electoral trouble for many years, if they give in to the no-deal spivs

Hazardswan · 13/10/2018 20:40

^also what pretzels said.