Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Brexit
Original poster

Reasons to remain and reasons to leave

404 replies

MyNameIsArthur · 07/10/2018 16:10

I am hoping this thread can be constructive, respectful and insult free on both sides and to be informative.

I would like to hear everyone's views on why they think it important to remain or leave. I want to hear what the positives and negatives are for remain or leave, in the short, medium and long term in your opinion.

Also, if leave will definitely happen, then what do you think would be the best deal we should try for? What future relationship would you like with the EU?

OP posts:
bellinisurge · 10/10/2018 20:19

@MyNameIsArthur - then people didn't bother to do any research. Even a bit. Despite claiming disillusionment with a world run by posh boys, they nevertheless believed it.
Don't buy it, op.

frumpety · 10/10/2018 20:24

So they were wrong then ? This government doesn't have any idea how the heck to do this, it is floundering, mainly because Mrs May decided to invoke Article 50 before anyone anywhere in the UK had come up with anything like a proper plan. The people who voted leave voted for this though. The blame lies at their door. They can share it with the media and the political establishment if it makes them feel better Smile

Original poster
MyNameIsArthur · 10/10/2018 20:34

Not really. They voted to leave. The rest was up to the Government to sort out. And that should have been David Cameron. You are right though that Theresa May shouldn't have invoked article 50 so soon if a proper plan had not been put together

OP posts:
frumpety · 10/10/2018 20:38

They voted to leave, end of , there was no how or when on the ballot so they did so with an element of risk, the scale of that risk is now apparent ( always was but ignored ). This government owes them nothing, if it all goes pear shaped ( and it will) they are going to have to accept responsibility for it.

bellinisurge · 10/10/2018 20:40

Ahhh, it's all TM's fault. Not the people who voted for this nonsense. So the Leavers' tactic begins.

Original poster
MyNameIsArthur · 10/10/2018 20:49

We are leaving because the country democratically voted in the referendum to leave, so the fact that we are leaving has nothing to do with fault.

You cannot say it will go pear shaped. You can say in your opinion it will go pear shaped.

OP posts:
1tisILeClerc · 10/10/2018 20:54

It is already going pear shaped, and we haven't got to March 2019 yet.

MakeAHouseAHome · 10/10/2018 21:55

Reason to Leave:

It is what the majority of people voted for and it is called democracy.

(Don't even start with "people didn't know what they were voting for" etc.)

bellinisurge · 10/10/2018 21:56

So I'm just opinionating the Minister for Food supply and the emergency management coordinators that the government is hiring. And I'm really opinionating the impasse in Northern Ireland.

Peregrina · 10/10/2018 22:13

I do agree that it is Cameron's fault, primarily. He did after all promise to stay on and see it through. He couldn't have reneged on that promise quicker. Then he wasted no time stepping down from Parliament. To write his memoirs. Given that he achieved little, it should be a slim volume, so why aren't they finished now?

But then, it is also May's fault, she could have said that she would examine all the options. So the current mess is one of her making.
I would be surprised if history is kind to either of them.

BTW I do wish Leavers would learn a little about our democracy. It's called Parliamentary democracy - we expect our MPs to make considered decisions on our behalf.

Original poster
MyNameIsArthur · 10/10/2018 22:14

Isn't that just planning for all possible contingencies? Doesn't mean they are going to happen

OP posts:
jasjas1973 · 10/10/2018 22:24

Jesus Arthur. is this what you voted for? contingency planing on a scale not seen since WW2, how long are you going to bury your head in the fcuking sand?

Unless there is a strong possibility of impending disaster, they wouldn't be wasting public money on these posts and ministerial appointments.
They are recruiting even though an agreement of sorts may well be reached in the next few weeks.........

You sound like a climate change denier.

Peregrina · 10/10/2018 22:27

jasjas, you put it better than me.

Vote Leave for Food Rationing and Medication shortages. Nope, I don't think that would have been a vote winner on the side of the bus.

jasjas1973 · 10/10/2018 22:30

Oh i don't i know Peregina i think there are plenty of really stupid people in this once great country, 600 of them in Parliament (there are a few sensible ones)

Peregrina · 10/10/2018 22:34

Yes, I hope that whatever happens in the next few years, we have a good clear out of the dead wood in Parliament. This is on all sides of the House. What a complete shower!

Original poster
MyNameIsArthur · 10/10/2018 23:00

I voted to leave. However I voted under the assumption that David Cameron would lead us through this, research would be done, our Government would organise cross party discussions on how to go about Brexit, very skilled researchers, negotiators, planners would be employed to bring about a good relationship with the EU after we leave with reasonable terms. I am concerned with how this has panned out since the referendum and feel let down by our Government and politicians and yes I am worried now about what will happen. I am not going to catastrophise however. Contingency plans are being put in place now because we are not where we should be at this stage of the 2 year negotiations, and things may happen, but they may not. I hope that a deal will be reached but if not, I think it would be sensible for another referendum to be held.

OP posts:
jasjas1973 · 10/10/2018 23:27

Arthur, all the info was there that Brexit was going to be extremely hard to achieve i.e NI and Gibraltar were mention frequently.

The fact is, if you leave any club or organisation, you lose the benefits and 44% of exports are sent to the EU, 60% of imports, we ve JIT manufacturing process and 40 odd years of integrated laws, regulations, data sharing, criminal checks, europol, Euratom, eurasmas, openskies EASA etc etc

How could anyone think we could untangle that lot in just 2 years, is laughable.

The benefits of leave were at best pie in the sky/wishful thinking and did not take in account, that to the Europeans, the EU is far more than just a trading bloc, it is an important structure to avoid war, they'll not risk stability to appease us.

But at least you want a 2nd vote, that's good.

Peregrina · 10/10/2018 23:50

Mind you Cameron did say he would stay on and implement the result. He also said he would invoke A50 straight away if Leave won, as I recall. So I think it's legitimate to feel let down by him.

Contigency plans would not have needed to be put in place, if May had been prepared to take her time and examine all options. May wasted time by trying to bypass Parliament and fighting Miller's court action. She wasted more time by calling an unnecessary election, and then she set the clock ticking on the UK leaving. At the very least, she ought to have had her Chequers meeting about 20 months before she did. She should also have been prepared to sack people like Johnson, and would have been better not making him Foreign Secretary in the first place. Surely there were better candidates?

MakeAHouseAHome · 11/10/2018 06:44

I personally voted to leave through hell or high water. As did practically everyone else I know. The nature of the 'deal' didn't even factor into it for me as I genuinely believe that being 'out' regardless is the best thing in the long run.

It therefore really annoys me when people try and belittle the decision - i.e. claims of 'you didn't know what you were voting for'.

frumpety · 11/10/2018 06:45

I suppose there are those who felt they could trust the political establishment to behave in a sensible and pragmatic way and so voted to leave believing no UK government would wilfully do anything to cause harm to the majority of the UK population.

I think a significant proportion of the population still believe this. Despite the government telling them otherwise.

frumpety · 11/10/2018 06:47

Makeahouse so any deal over any period of time would satisfy you ?

bellinisurge · 11/10/2018 06:50

@MakeAHouseAHome - I am sure you were a Hell or High Water leave voter. It's just that I doubt everyone who voted leave was. The hell or high water stuff is dismissed as Project Fear. I get the "feel the fear and do it anyway " approach.
What I don't get is the " what fear? You are all lying snowflakes".

jasjas1973 · 11/10/2018 06:58

Frumpety Folk like Makeahouseahovel, are beyond reasoning with.

Leaving the hated EU is the only goal, nothing else matters.

frumpety · 11/10/2018 07:02

Ah but they said that they didn't give any thought to a deal or what that may involve , so by their own admission, any deal over any period of time will suit them. As long as the end result is leave.

TheNumberfaker · 11/10/2018 07:02

Why MakeaHouse ? How would we be better off in the long run? Regardless of anything?

Swipe left for the next trending thread