Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Brexit
Original poster

Reasons to remain and reasons to leave

404 replies

MyNameIsArthur · 07/10/2018 16:10

I am hoping this thread can be constructive, respectful and insult free on both sides and to be informative.

I would like to hear everyone's views on why they think it important to remain or leave. I want to hear what the positives and negatives are for remain or leave, in the short, medium and long term in your opinion.

Also, if leave will definitely happen, then what do you think would be the best deal we should try for? What future relationship would you like with the EU?

OP posts:
AlphaJuno · 08/10/2018 15:55

Reasons to remain: what a lot of pp have already said. I voted remain. Plus didn't want to be left at the mercy of the Tories as don't think they do things in the interest of everyone (apart from the rich).

Reasons to leave: (according to my dp who's a leaver). I'm struggling to believe any of this because not seen much evidence but he just thinks anything remainers say is falling for the EU's spiel because that's what they want Confused.

  1. The EU is an evil superpower run by unelected officials who have connections with the banks and are syphoning all our money off to the Cayman Islands.
  1. There may be a war In Europe and we are better off out of it.
  1. It's a matter of 'principle' and if we are worse of, so be it Confused
  1. He still thinks items will be cheaper (clothes, shoes etc. What JRM thinks) because of the tariff thing and we can get better deals out the EU.
  1. Other countries are desperate for our custom.
  1. We won't have to send x amount to the EU every week. (Doesn't believe it will be offset by the cost of the whole thing)

7, having to get visas for other countries is no big deal for what we'll 'gain'

  1. The EU is gearing up to give us a free trade deal
AlphaJuno · 08/10/2018 16:00

When I try and say arguments against what he says, he says the only reason people are not saying any of this are that media are biased towards the EU because it's run by people with interests in the EU? Personally I thought papers like the Sun were pro Brexit Hmm

UnnecessaryFennel · 08/10/2018 16:18

LTB

1tisILeClerc · 08/10/2018 16:23

Alpha
Most of the papers are pretty pro brexit (as you are probably aware)
Food and clothing is probably more expensive in Europe, certainly at the moment.

twofingerstoEverything · 08/10/2018 16:42

When I'm ready, I'll answer this
Sounds like the OP is gearing up to mansplain something to us.

Alpha - just curious, but how do you manage to listen to all that drivel and keep your sanity? That must be hard.

Snog · 08/10/2018 16:47

www.capitalandconflict.com/brexit/ten-reasons-to-leave-eu/

Here are some arguments for leave for some balance. Personally I find it difficult to get to grips with the arguments of either side. There are so many unknowns and so many vested interests.

Ta1kinpeace · 08/10/2018 16:52

Most of those reasons are things that Whitehall could have dealt with if it wanted to
and that Brexit will do nothing about

  • localism
  • land ownership
  • accountability
the rest are just hyperbole (Southern Europe)
Snog · 08/10/2018 16:58

I think the problem is That the brexit vote wasn't really about brexit so much as an expression of dissatisfaction with the status quo.

Snog · 08/10/2018 17:05

The referendum i believe for many was about a chance to " stick it to the man" and no wonder when so many people are disenfranchised and struggling.

1tisILeClerc · 08/10/2018 17:19

Definitely some 'half truths' in that article.
It might appear impressive if you don't read the Westminsterenders thread on MN!
If you do, then that piece looks like Swiss cheese.

AlphaJuno · 08/10/2018 18:06

@attwofingerstoeverything yes it is hard. Feel like I'm currently losing my sanity as we speak. But I'm open to hearing other sides to the argument if they make sense. It's a shame because it's the only thing we ever argue about. Gets to the point where I've had to say let's not talk about the 'B' word 😕.

twofingerstoEverything · 08/10/2018 19:05

Keep up the good work, Alpha, and challenge the more obvious bullshit!

Peregrina · 08/10/2018 19:55

The reasons to leave link, looks superficially attractive but in some cases isn't really reasons to leave - it's areas where the EU could do with reform and in others it's just opinion.
But let's take a look at some:
Centralised power - most decisions that matter to people, health, education, housing, are part of the remit of each country's government.
Fringe nations do better- citing Switzerland and Norway - in Schengen, allowing FoM, all the things which the UK (or ERG and Theresa May) say is a big no no.
Regulation should be local - despite the Europhobic wing of the Tory party saying so, the UK has had a major say in legislation, and could, if it could be bothered, veto stuff it didn't agree with.

And on, and on. Just about all of these could be debunked but I can't be bothered to, because we have already done so on the Westministerenders threads over and over again. Oh with a few crocodile tears thrown in about African agriculture.

Then we have the things not said. We can do trade deals with the USA. Yes, so we will have a say in how the regulations governing them are made? We be voting for Senators in the US? Nope. Not an offer on the table.

Furthermore, if something does need reform, why not set to and reform it - why destroy it? Don't say we have tried to reform it, because the UK hasn't. The UK's approach has to be to whine for special deals.

lljkk · 08/10/2018 20:41

Are we "moving into an age of decentralisation and localisation" , that EU thwarts? Remember that regional parliament that held up the Canada-EU FTA? That looks like legit regionalised power to me.

"Fringe nations perform better"... this argument goes onto say how Britain is in a "great position" to negotiate a great deal with EU. Why haven't we done that by now?

"Regulation should be local" = Let us eat chlorinated chicken if we don't know about like it!

Southern Europe: alleged to be treated badly... yet least likely to vote to leave EU.

Immigration: this point matters if you are anti-immigrant.

"Trade with rest world will flourish". Reality = rWorld will set high tariffs against our exports b/c we don't have a trade deal with them & we can't get better access terms than they already give to EU.

Declining share of global economy: ignores economic growth of China & BRICs & EU's ageing population (UK's ageing population).

We didn't elect the Queen, either, or any member of House of Lords.

CAP & fisheries are so complicated I don't pretend to understand them or know what source is objective to talk about their future after Brexit.

Snog · 08/10/2018 21:06

Outside of the EU my understanding is thy we can remove VAT from tampons which would be a good thing

Ta1kinpeace · 08/10/2018 21:07

snog
The government could remove the VAT from tampons
but it wont
because that would be a tax cut for non tory voters (young women) Wink

jasjas1973 · 08/10/2018 21:08

Norway, Iceland and Switzerland are in the EEA or SM, something May has completely ruled out.

The article is pointless and doesn't apply to the UK for that reason alone.

Peregrina · 08/10/2018 21:09

OK removing VAT on tampons a good thing. Why not stay in the EU and press for it to removed in all the other EU states? Women there have periods too!

jasjas1973 · 08/10/2018 21:37

Brexit is a little like the Climate change report, stating we ve 12 years to drastically change our life styles....

We wont, we'll carry-on until its too late and then cry "No one told us!!!"

Jason118 · 08/10/2018 21:38

Since there a only a few really good reasons to leave (that I can find or have been made aware of), I've had a little Google and this has summed up the madness. I know it's old news, but a nice reminder of how thoroughly ridiculous the whole thing is.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/22/20-reasons-you-should-vote-to-leave-the-european-union/

EnjoySmileSmile

bellinisurge · 09/10/2018 07:23

@Jason118 -Laugh? I nearly wept in my cornflakes.
If people keep saying this shit over and over (and they still do) the unicorns will bring it on a golden platter.

Original poster
MyNameIsArthur · 09/10/2018 20:15

Jason118 do you think many leavers were swayed by this article?

OP posts:
Jason118 · 09/10/2018 23:43

Yes, 11

frumpety · 10/10/2018 19:08

The beauty of the whole Brexit situation is the fact that the UK Government can turn around when it all goes tits up ( and it will ) and say 'this is what you voted for ' to all those who voted leave. Because when you voted leave, you voted for whatever those in charge decided to decipher from that vote. Nobody who voted leave can turn around and say 'this isn't what I meant' because when you voted leave you absolutely did.

Original poster
MyNameIsArthur · 10/10/2018 20:06

I think people voted to leave with the confidence that the Government would negotiate reasonable terms for the relationship with the EU after leaving and that David Cameron would be the one steering the country through this

OP posts:
Swipe left for the next trending thread