Westministenders: Talks Walk Out?

[RedToothBrush]

We are now on the countdown to whether we get a backstop Withdrawal Deal. May is hoping to get the EU to backdown on this saying that we will stay in the customs union until a deal is agreed on NI. That would mean come 29th March, we'd have no transistion period, but we'd still have a hard border in NI because we were out of the single market. And if the EU don't agree to it we are into the chances of accidental Brexit being sky high. The only way out would be revoking a50. May has hinted that if Tory MPs don't give her support we could end up with no brexit at all - whether she means revoking a50 or Beano isn't clear.

So onward to 18th October...

So, 10degrees. Given that you think the Guardian's 4 possible outcome are rubbish, what is your 'take' on the situation. How would YOU solve the various issues?

Most English leave voters say they would sacrifice the union in order to win Brexit.

Twas ever thus. Even at the height of the IRA mainland campaign the general attitude of people I heard talking about it was that it was nothing to do with "us" and we should let "them" sort it out amongst themselves. My DF still doesn't really grasp the nature of the UK ... despite the fact that Italy has its own potted history and intranational regions.

I suspect if you stopped people on the streets of England, more would recognise George Best from a picture than Arlene Foster.

So, 10degrees. Given that you think the Guardian's 4 possible outcome are rubbish, what is your 'take' on the situation. How would YOU solve the various issues?

I suspect they'd suggest it's the EUs place to come up with a solution ....

And now Wales is talking independence

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-4574569

10degrees If you don't trust "Remain" sources,
then read the daily blog of Dr Richard North who has campaigned for Brexit for about the last 30 years.

He has been screaming warnings about the horrendous consequences of no deal, or indeed any deal that menas leaving the Single Market.
(However, he still wants to Leave, even if the economy crashes totally)

He makes it clear that the consequences of leaving the SM are automatic, under WTO /WCO rules,
NOT the EU taking any "punishment" action - if they give us cherries, they destroy the SM on which their prosperity depends.

This is a recent one about farming / agricultural exports:
http://www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=87006

or this, outlining again the consequences of no deal: logjammed ports and delayed food supplies:
http://www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=86951

"it will be a disaster"

"a "no deal" applying from the 29 March next year will result in every shipment moving by road vehicle between the UK and the EU requiring customs clearance.
Millions of lorries, with hundreds of millions of shipments move this way every year.

Each shipment will require both an export clearance for departure and an import clearance for arrival regardless of the direction of travel.
...
no ferry port (or the tunnel) has facilities to accommodate this extra customs work – in the UK or the EU.
There is no processing point that can handle the volume of business.
There are not enough customs agents to handle the business, nor enough customs officers.

With the lack of knowledge and skills massive numbers of processing mistakes will be made in respect of duties and VAT – therefore current processing times will not be achievable."

He refers to latest press statement by the Road Haulage Association:
https://www.rha.uk.net/getmedia/c98d0219-fcf7-434e-b9cd-51f2ff0c316c/180730-Brexit-pull-your-finger-out-final.pdf.aspx

All this rule from foreign soil nonsense makes me wonder whether the attitude to the EU would be different if the parliament and commission were based in the UK. Although it would make brexit very awkward if we did.

No idea haven’t read the guardians four outcomes - try not to read propaganda... :)

Then read Dr North's Leave blog

Just also wanted to say that Francis Pryor and Alice Roberts would both be on my fantasy dinner party guest list.

I think I've recommended Nicholas Crane's Making of the British Landscape on these threads before - but worth doing so again as it's a brilliant account of the intertwining of geography, geology, the environment and human history.

Watching that one with interest BigChoc
Thank goodness we have Tusk and Varadkar on the case.
O'Neill is good.

Sinn Fein deputy leader Michelle O'Neill told the BBC Brexit posed a threat to Northern ireland

Speaking from Brussels before meeting with EU chief negotiator Michel Barnier, Ms O'Neill said people in Northern Ireland "did not ask for Brexit

^Our message is very clear to Michel Barnier today and that is what we want to stay in the customs union, the single market, that we can't stand being outside those things," she said.

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/special-status-economic-catastrophe-and-nonsense-for-northern-ireland-to-be-governed-by-brussels-says-dups-dodds-37387435.html

28 nations want peace and a couple of shires and a handful of dodgy tax dodgers and their bosses don't.

Just also wanted to say that Francis Pryor and Alice Roberts would both be on my fantasy dinner party guest list.

He opened up his garden a couple of weeks ago as part of the National Trust weekend. Apparently some Time Team colleagues popped by. (pryorfrancis.wordpress.com/2018/09/15/the-first-day-saturday-sept-15-th/)

DW indulged my Alice Roberts fanbois, and we saw her give a talk in Birmingham last year . Again, she mentioned that we are having to rewrite almost everything we thought we "knew" as more data becomes available (yes, there is a subtext). In particular the idea that Homo Sapiens (as a "superior" species) somehow offed the entire Neanderthal species.

And lo ! what pops up in my feed today ...

www.nytimes.com/2018/10/04/science/neanderthal-genes-viruses.html

Long ago, Neanderthals probably infected modern humans with viruses, perhaps even an ancient form of H.I.V. But our extinct relatives also gave us genetic defenses.

People of Asian and European descent — almost anyone with origins outside of Africa — have inherited a sliver of DNA from some unusual ancestors: the Neanderthals.

These genes are the result of repeated interbreeding long ago between Neanderthals and modern humans. But why are those genes still there 40,000 years after Neanderthals became extinct?

(contd)

I like Nicholas Crane too, but have not read that one yet. It's on my Amazon wishlist. I love clear waters rising and recently read 2°West which was enjoyable, especially as I realised one of the people he meets is my mum's cousin.

With the lack of knowledge and skills massive numbers of processing mistakes will be made in respect of duties and VAT

bearing in mind it will be the traders and businesses that will be liable for mistakes, not HMG or HMRC.

Business: "There's the £100,000 we we told to charge for customs"
HMRC: "£100,000 ? Where did you get that from ?"
Business: "Er, you."
HMRC: "Well it should have been £110,000."
Business: "But ..."
HMRC: "No buts. Cough up"
Business: "We'll see about this."
Courts: "Business is liable. It's what the law says."
Business: "What law ?"
Courts: "Well, not exactly law. But the minister has ruled that businesses are liable."
Business: "But that's not fair, how can I appeal ?"
Courts: "Er, who said anything about appealing ?"
Business: "Um.... Henry VIII ?"

I think I've recommended Nicholas Crane's Making of the British Landscape

For a more global view, I really cannot recommend www.amazon.co.uk/Prisoners-Geography-Everything-Global-Politics/dp/1783961414?tag=mumsnetforum-21 highly enough. It explains a lot about a lot - including why we can't understand where Russia is coming from.

Have I missed clarification on what constitutes the True Nation State that we're supposed to be unpatriotically disbelieving in?

Have I missed clarification on what constitutes the True Nation State that we're supposed to be unpatriotically disbelieving in?

You probably need some sort of whizzy interactive webpage, where you enter the year, and it shows you how it used to be like in that year. You can choose from there.

Or you could just bang on about it without really knowing what it meant. Not that anyone would ever do that ...

Nicholas Cranes’s The Making Of the British Landscape is 99p in the Kindle sale at the moment for anyone interested. I bought it earlier this week.

Just finished watching the King Arthur programme - very interesting. One thing that struck me was that they talked about two very different Englands that were both looking outward - but to different places - and not two different Englands looking inward and having an internal conflict.
Brexit, to me, seems very much like a rejection of the former in order to to do the latter. We will be internal looking - and massive conflict will arise from that, where there was peace and prosperity when we were linked with our closest neighbours. But hey ho - blue passports.

I think with referring to the guardian as the liberal elite 10degrees has passed the marker where we have to give them the benefit of the doubt that they are simply a person who disagrees with us and has now moved into actual troll territory.
Maybe it's time to discuss our gardens again? I don't have one - but there is some rather nice woodland outside my window that I can use to forage in, plenty of squirrels and even the occasional fox or deer. Mmm Brexit venison.

"Guck mal da, ein Eichhörnchen!“
< "Look, a squirrel !" >

We have lovely little red squirrels in my area

ECJ have announced that they will consider on 27 November the case whether the UK can revoke A50 unilaterally

I disagree pretzels, I think they're totally serious and real.

I've always been a big fan of BBC historical documentaries, and I get a real feeling with many of the recent ones that the presenters were often subtly (or sometimes even pointedly ) saying very Remain-y things. For example there was one with the apparently unpromising title of "Invasion" which made me think that. And, if only I could remember exactly which, an episode of the latest series of Horrible Histories too.

I think with referring to the guardian as the liberal elite 10degrees has passed the marker where we have to give them the benefit of the doubt that they are simply a person who disagrees with us and has now moved into actual troll territory.

Doesn't really matter what their views on any particular source are. Of more import is that fact that given an alternative - pro-Brexit - source, they suddenly change tack or go quiet. It would be amusing if that link provided was a 404, or a picture of some flowers, showing clearly how Brexiteers simply aren't interested in any facts.

No idea *elements. James Patrick's got some funny trolls too. They seem to have broken down.

Alex Forrest@AlexFor55827735
Replying to @J_amesp
Call your son Jason. Or unblock him on viber. He is 7 and can’t understand why you are not talking to him. Hate your son because he is half Russian he nationalism! And he should not suffer from this

"Guck mal da, ein Eichhörnchen!
Süss.

I've always been a big fan of BBC historical documentaries, and I get a real feeling with many of the recent ones that the presenters were often subtly (or sometimes even pointedly smile) saying very Remain-y things.

The lack of complaints or accusations of bias from Brexiteers could be used by some - mischievously - to suggest that they're not really that interested in history. Or indeed learning. But I'm sure that's not true.