Westministenders: Talks Walk Out?

[RedToothBrush]

We are now on the countdown to whether we get a backstop Withdrawal Deal. May is hoping to get the EU to backdown on this saying that we will stay in the customs union until a deal is agreed on NI. That would mean come 29th March, we'd have no transistion period, but we'd still have a hard border in NI because we were out of the single market. And if the EU don't agree to it we are into the chances of accidental Brexit being sky high. The only way out would be revoking a50. May has hinted that if Tory MPs don't give her support we could end up with no brexit at all - whether she means revoking a50 or Beano isn't clear.

So onward to 18th October...

I did a dissertation on "L'Enchanteur Pourrisant" by Apollinaire as part of my degree (literally, "The Rotting Sorcerer"): an interesting re-telling of Merlin's story.

Of course it's only a hop-skip from there to Tennyson (are Remainers allowed to like Tennyson ? I bet he'd have been a Remainer ). And from Tennyson (although he hated them) the pre-Raphaelites waves !!!!!!. Who again, I can't see as anything other than Remainers ...

Returning to education and the UK forcing people into education-system shaped pupils, rather than wrapping the education system around people ... between the age of 14 - when I had to decide which O level led to which A level led to which degree, and 22, I discovered that I really would have enjoyed English or History as much as the Maths/Physics/Chemistry A levels leading onto Computer & Communications systems I did do. So many people realise too late they've made a choice they're not happy with (yes, there is a subtext ). Which is why I feel education should be viewed as a lifelong process - where people can dip in and out when they want/can/would benefit most. More like an NHS for the mind. After all, we don't stop caring for the body when people turn 22 or so. Well, not yet, leastways.

When the Normans invaded and of course never left, did they magically turn from foreign to TruePatriots?

No, they practically wiped out the North of England. Very harsh masters, the Normans. We should know. We're still their subjects.

A true Brexiteer viewpoint.
www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/rees-mogg-calls-for-post-brexit-crackdown-on-urchins-neerdo-wells-and-strumpets-20181005178021

borntobequiet

The problem is, I know there are people who really think that. Just look at some of the threads here. That article isn't satire. It's just précis.

What I said!

The Scottish education system is still broad - even up to tertiary education (it's one of the reasons why we have 4 year degrees).

We do 5 subjects up to S5 (=Y12)when we sit Highers, which are what the Unis look for (it is possible to go to Uni from S5 - as I did) and then people can do more Highers in S6 and/or some Advanced Highers (usually roughly equivalent to the level of 1st in the subject at Uni).

Ds has just gone to Aberdeen to do an International Relations degree. In addition to PIR (Politics and IR have the same 1st year course as it is the same foundation of knowledge required), he has chosen Philosophy, Economics and 20th Century European history as his other subjects.

He has Advanced Highers in Maths and Physics - and would have chosen Maths as an option if it didn't conflict with his PIR timetable (which was his one "core" subject). He's hoping to pick it up again in 2nd year as an option and/or will get to do Statistics as one of the modules in his degree.

He'll only specialise into his Honours degree after 2 years.

When I did my Highers, I deliberately did half Sciences, half Arts (Maths, Physics, Chemistry, English, French, Latin: my school allowed 6 to be sat in a single diet although that is rare nowadays).

We're still their subjects.

But, according to our knowledgeable TruePatriot, they're somehow not foreign any more.

Still no clarity on whether France is, or is not, foreign having been part of the same kingdom. Or Germany, seeing as that's where Anglo-Saxons came from in the first place. Or Ireland, seeing as that is possibly where all the original inhabitants of these isles ended up, having been displaced by the Anglo-Saxons.

But we're all very very clear that countries of the European Union, now, are definitely foreign. And therefore "winning argument!" BAAAAAAAD.

Also, this patriotic English language that we're all communicating in. It's Germanic, reflecting its Anglo-Saxon origin. With many words from Norman French. Plus a lot of words from many other languages, because of travel and colonialism.

In many regards it's quite similar to Dutch/Flemish. And I read somewhere that, in fact, the closest relative to English is Frisian, spoken in a Friesland, a province of the Netherlands. So perhaps the Netherlands and parts of Belgium aren't foreign either.

Roll on end of March, I for one can't wait to leave the rotten EU.

And what about the Romans, a mixed bunch' coming here a couple of thousand years ago with things like order and cleanliness, out with them! And as for building things that last, don't get me started.

LeClerc I left out the Romans and the Danelaw, because they conveniently left (apart from a liberal sprinkling of DNA throughout the population), so obviously they're foreign and therefore BAAAAAAAD.

Maybe all the 'remainers' could have a quick whip round and buy a bit of rock in the Atlantic and put all the 'leavers' there so they can truly be 'sovereign' and not have to talk to anyone else.
Maybe Scotland could sell the Shetland isles. Possibly the Faroes even?
Actually the Faroes:
The Faroe Islands is a self-governing archipelago, part of the Kingdom of Denmark. It comprises 18 rocky, volcanic islands between Iceland and Norway in the North Atlantic Ocean, connected by road tunnels, ferries, causeways and bridges. Hikers and bird-watchers are drawn to the islands’ mountains, valleys and grassy heathland, and steep coastal cliffs that harbor thousands of seabirds.

Plenty for all, it even has bridges to keep BoJo amused.
OK they are Danish but I am sure we could get a decent deal.
I will just get Werrity sniffer to check it out.

{(apart from a liberal sprinkling of DNA throughout the population}
Now there's a euphemism!

When I pop into these threads and these history chats come up I can't help but feel more people should watch Horrible Histories. All these basics are covered in there, often in easy song format

Where has the expert in TruePatrioticNationhood gone? 😩

I was so looking forward to having the correct time period and national borders defined for me, so I could be certain I was being correctly traitorous in my Remaniacal Remoaning!

'Surfer' on a different thread tried to get some singalongs going but it died a death.
Even the proposed drinking didn't seem to cheer things up much.

Where is Tom Robinson when you need him with a reverse of 'reasons to be cheerful'?

The element. Probably struggling between 'taking the pi$$' and 'not giving a f%^&' I expect. That's the problem with indecision.

And what about the Romans, a mixed bunch' coming here a couple of thousand years ago with things like order and cleanliness, out with them! And as for building things that last, don't get me started.

I give you a nearby attraction - the oldest standing arch in Britain. (It's where they tried to build a Roman villa using historical techniques for "Rome Wasn't Built In A day").

Not really a Brexit thing, but Wroxeter is well worth a visit - you can combine it with RAF Cosford which has a fantastic collection of planes and a great Cold War exhibition.

My concern over May sending in troops is that there would no longer be even a pretence at neutraliy,
just imposing hardline Unionist views on the Catholic population and rolling back the rights obtained from the GFA

Corbyn is not controlled by the DUP, so I would expect him to work with the RoI,
especially considering that almost half the voters are Catholic and a majority of the young.

The whole NI border problem is a result of the colonisers - England / Britain - refusing to accept a democratic vote by the whole of Ireland to become independent.
Britain partitioned Ireland under threat of a brutal scorched earth war.

If Britain had just accepted democracy then, the NI border wouldn't exist to be a roadblock now.

However, even without NI, one problem would still remain:
Brexiters - including the UK govt - want to Brexit, but keep all the bits they need from the EU

The Tory party wouldn't be tearing itself apart if they thought Brexit was beneficial or even neutral for the country:
They are in total panic because they realise it will be a longterm disaster

Those few MPs not panicking are either ignoramuses or clever folk ecpecting to make big profits by hedging against Sterling and British companies.

The EU is not stopping the UK from Leaving, just not allowing them to dismantle the SIngle Market and loot the bits they want.

10degrees - coming from a country which has been under foreign rule, your comparison of the EU with foreign rule is offensive. Britain always had a seat at the decision table under the EU, much more than it ever offered to its Empire.

In the modern world, countries recognise that they have more power and influence if they cooperate than act individually. But cooperation is not the same as domination. As part of the EU, the UK voted in favour of EU laws over 95% of the time and it retained control of all of the most important aspects of sovereignty - taxation, foreign policy, domestic policy etc

Red
This is for you re the sword in the lake. The beginning is a bit gruesome but the ending is wonderful.

Or Ireland, seeing as that is possibly where all the original inhabitants of these isles ended up, having been displaced by the Anglo-Saxons

Thinking has been changing on the Anglo -Saxon invasion, and a massive fine scale study of the inhabitants of the UK have backed it up ... the Anglo Saxons didn't really displace anyone. The average English person in England has majority celtic or earlier DNA (celts by no means being the first people to live on these Islands) and a significant minority Saxon. (no viking, Norman or Roman DNA is extant in the population at large. The majority Celtic DNA shows the Celts didn't move - they are still here. Minority Saxon DNA, where other conqueror DNA is absent, shows a level of intermingling that did not happen with the others.) The theory - now backed by DNA evidence says that the far fewer Anglo Saxons came over than was originally thought. it was quite an 'elite' invasion - so they entered the top parts of society and intermarried the chief Celts (even in the myth of Hengist and Horsa - King Vortigern marries the Anglo Saxon Rowena). The change from Celt to Saxon was a cultural change - not a genetic one.

But considering the English Celts appear to have chosen of their own volition to become Saxon (and it must really have taken hold - the Romans were here civilising us for 400 years, the moment they left we went back to the way we were before. 'Roman' culture had only ever been surface level. 1000 years later - we still speak a mostly Saxon language and consider ourselves Saxon, it was a revolution that was agreed upon by the little people) Brexit is about the most anti-English sentiment you could hope to find. True English people embrace European culture and learning. They have done for over a thousand years.

YouGov @YouGov
Tomorrow is World Zombie Day, so here's our public service reminder that just 11% of Brits have a zombie plan