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Brexit

Westministenders: “No Deal is Better Than a Bad Deal?”

991 replies

RedToothBrush · 27/09/2018 23:25

The key phrase that was once parroted by all the lead Brexiteers, and repeated by their social media followers.

BUT curiously, it seems that those who once said it with such conviction seem to be backing away from it.

Take a lot around at who is saying it, and who no longer seem to be. Certainly not with the same force.

May, alone, seems to have decided to nail herself to the mast of No Deal is Better than a Bad Deal in her post Salzberg Toddler Strop. She seemed to be announcing that in practice No Deal was now official government policy, because the EU weren’t playing ball. It wasn’t an abandonment of Chequers but it seemed close to it.

But who else is still saying it? It would seem its only the die hards on twitter and the Nigel Farage / Arron Banks camp.

Not people with tangible power. Not people who have to actually vote on the matter. Apart from Theresa.

David Davis who at one point seemed to be saying it every other day, now seems - along with Jacob Rees Mogg and Boris Johnson - to have moved to a Canada Plus position. They don’t seem to be anywhere near so enthusiastic about a No Deal. The ERG as a whole largely seems to be backing off the idea, though if it happened, they probably wouldn’t be too upset. They just they are starting to see more risk than even than even they would like to hazard as a first choice, contained within No Deal. When No Deal is starting to be perceived as too risky for disaster capitalists, you might start to pay attention.

But nope. Not Theresa.

Theresa has very firmly got it into her head that this is her ‘Iron Lady’ moment. The rhetoric about not being for turning, is deliberately evocative to a certain group. She’s trying to get a deal like Thatcher got with the CAP from the EU. Except we’ve been there and done that and politically is that even an option for the EU to do that in our current political climate with Trump and the Rise of the Authoritarians.

May’s previous track record, also points to her stubborness going above and beyond the point where it is sensible - or even sane - to continue to pursue. She is pig headed to the point of spite. She takes things personally when things going against her. In the Home Office she took cases to appeal which defy all sense of logic and public interest purpose. Its been up to the courts to tell her no in, no uncertain terms before she has eventually stopped. And in some cases she ignored this. Its petty, its arrogant and right now it's a clear and present danger to the national interest.

The Cabinet who have remained loyal to May up to this point, are also starting to recognise the danger. The Times has reported that Raab, Gove, Hunt and Javid are in this camp and May can not necessarily rely on them. They are said to be leaning towards the ERG position.

The problem being that the DUP seem to be going in the opposite direction in leaning towards a softer Brexit. They label both Chequerers and Canada as unworkable. The reality of the border is kicking in, in the circle that matters. The DUP can not ignore nor underestimate the potential for rising support for a United Ireland.

Theresa as a committed Unionist is now very much at odds with the DUP.

May also is facing rebellion for a reported 40 MPs over Canada, according to Amber Rudd. Again they are pushing for a softer option.

In the background is the revised labour policy which now supports a People’s Vote, if they can’t force a General Election. They also won’t support a deal for May. It's something of a fudged position with limited effect, but it's a move to a softer position than previously. Shadow Brexit Secretary Keir Starmer, also is alleged to have challenged the leadership by saying Remain would be an option during the Labour conference. McDonnell has very much denied this.

In October 2016, it was said by Donald Tusk that it was a choice between a very Hard Brexit or No Brexit.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37650077

It was also said by the former Polish Finance Minister that Hard Brexit was the easiest political choice for both the UK and Europe.
www.straitstimes.com/opinion/the-political-logic-of-hard-brexit

For everything that has gone on in the last two years, these two points of view seem to be holding up better than the majority that any British commentator has come out with.

And whilst Theresa might now be the only one still saying no deal is better than a bad deal, she is perhaps the closest to the political reality of the dynamics of how everything is going.

Her Salzburg speech, definitely came from a mess of her own making, as she was unable and unwilling to take different political approaches and she lacked pragmatism and flexibility. But at the same time, where she is now is also a result of always being something of a hostage to political circumstance too.

Her speech can also be read as an inadvertent announcement and a warning of ‘accidental no deal’ because she does recognise that all alternative political solutions domestically are impossible to her and she can only be saved by the EU. That’s not taking back control. That’s begging for a way out and for the EU to solve British political problems, which they have always said they would not intervene in.

And isn’t that just the irony.

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Thread gallery
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Quietrebel · 29/09/2018 21:16

No deal (if it comes to that) is going to be a real shock to the average person and the collective reaction is unpredictable. That worries me.

RedToothBrush · 29/09/2018 21:17

Tim Shipman @shippersunbound
Stand by for The Sunday Times. I’ve interviewed both Theresa May and Boris Johnson

arrgggghhhhh

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Quietrebel · 29/09/2018 21:20

Brexit already costing the UK £500million A WEEK.
Another stat revealing how pointless and expensive this is:

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/29/britain-bill-brexit-hits-500-million-pounds-a-week

TheElementsSong · 29/09/2018 21:25

As another aside, I've been following the Kavanagh-excusing thread and I am shocked, shocked I tell you to recognise a couple of regular Leavers on the pro-Kavanagh side.

RedToothBrush · 29/09/2018 21:26

www.buzzfeed.com/amphtml/alexwickham/the-tories-have-accidentally-revealed-the-personal-mobile?utm_source=dynamic&utm_campaign=bfsharetwitter&utm_term=.htjBxPOr0&__twitter_impression=true
The Tories Have Accidentally Revealed The Personal Mobile Numbers Of Hundreds Of MPs And Journalists On Their Conference App

Neil Claxton @mintriyale
I’m currently logged in to the Conservative Conference app as Boris Johnson and now have his phone number.
I’m not the only person judging by his new profile pic.
I’ve changed his title to something more appropriate.
I’ve updated his position to something more accurate

And

At least two cabinet ministers have received prank calls on their personal mobiles from members of the public.

Westministenders: “No Deal is Better Than a Bad Deal?”
Westministenders: “No Deal is Better Than a Bad Deal?”
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woman11017 · 29/09/2018 21:46

Those who think that starvation and its relative effects on health and mortality are not a real possibility should perhaps read more widely.

Westministenders: “No Deal is Better Than a Bad Deal?”
RedToothBrush · 29/09/2018 22:01

Sunday Newspaper Time!!!

And how this as one to start us off:

Westministenders: “No Deal is Better Than a Bad Deal?”
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RedToothBrush · 29/09/2018 22:02

This one is so much better... and not over shadowing the conference at all.

Westministenders: “No Deal is Better Than a Bad Deal?”
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RedToothBrush · 29/09/2018 22:04

more

Westministenders: “No Deal is Better Than a Bad Deal?”
Westministenders: “No Deal is Better Than a Bad Deal?”
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RedToothBrush · 29/09/2018 22:07

May reveals plans for a historic festival to celebrate Brexit.

(see the Times front cover).

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RedToothBrush · 29/09/2018 22:11

Confidence is a preference for the habitual voyeur of what is known as

Westministenders: “No Deal is Better Than a Bad Deal?”
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woman11017 · 29/09/2018 22:19

May reveals plans for a historic festival to celebrate Brexit
Patriotic Vigilante Day, for the triggering of the Emergency Powers?
She's depleted our army too much to have enough professional soldiers.

RedToothBrush · 29/09/2018 22:22

Nope, shes aiming for Victoria's Great Exhibition.

(No really. She is)

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RedToothBrush · 29/09/2018 22:23

From the people organising the Tory Party Conference, what could go wrong with that as an idea?

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RedToothBrush · 29/09/2018 22:32

John Harris @johnharris1969
You know the way out of this appalling national shitshow?
A bridge to Ireland.
That's it.
Yes.
A bridge. To Ireland.
Yes.

BORIS ACTUALLY SAYS THIS.

Westministenders: “No Deal is Better Than a Bad Deal?”
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ShinyElena · 29/09/2018 22:39

Just been eating out in Birmingham. The restaurant was very near to the Tory conference. The area is a fortress. DH did not let me take any photos because of all the armed police. We played spot the Tory conference delegate, but DH is quite rubbish. He could not even spot the plaincloth police officers.

woman11017 · 29/09/2018 22:45

Was this a breach of national security? No. Was it an unforced error the party could do without, and a bumpy start to what was already likely to be a bumpy conference? Yes
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-

This is Britain, and everything's all right

BORIS ACTUALLY SAYS THIS
His bosses are trolling us, again.

RedToothBrush · 29/09/2018 22:48

Boris's only idea in politics is literally bridges.

He wanted a vanity garden bridge. That got axed at great expense.

Then he wanted a bridge across the channel
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/channel-bridge-boris-johnson-tunnel-britain-france-uk-cost-european-commission-eu-funding-a8171856.html

And now he's going full out on the 'Celtic Bridge' idea.

THIS MAN WANTS TO BE PM.

I think my 4 year old would give him a run for his money.

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BestIsWest · 29/09/2018 22:48

Given Boris’ past history with bridges let’s not hold our breath on a bridge to Ireland.

And where is he proposing it goes? Stranraer to Belfast? Fishguard to Rosslare?

RedToothBrush · 29/09/2018 22:49

Maybe we should give him a fucking bridge and tell him to get the fuck over it.

Preferably one at the local mini golf course.

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woman11017 · 29/09/2018 22:53

Anymore on the taxing the forrins?
festival of brexit britain
Suggestions for exhibits?
The restaurant was very near to the Tory conference. The area is a fortress. DH did not let me take any photos because of all the armed police
Sort of like an occupied country.

Westministenders: “No Deal is Better Than a Bad Deal?”
Peregrina · 29/09/2018 22:53

Nope, shes aiming for Victoria's Great Exhibition.

Perish the thought. When the Victorian's had a Great Exhibition the country was riding high and successful. We had great engineers who could design and build things. When we had the Festival of Britain, the war was over, things were still rationed, but there was hope for better times ahead, and many people were committed to building a better society.

Imagine now, Crystal Palace Mk2 designed in China and built with imported sub-Saharan labour.

The only thing you can say, is that May does not have her finger on the pulse of the nation. If people can't get food and medication, they won't want to indulge her vanity projects.

woman11017 · 29/09/2018 22:54

'Bridge envy' is a common ailment in his demographic. Wink
Court case on his other one is going ahead.

IrenetheQuaint · 29/09/2018 22:54

You're being unfair, RTB. Boris was also v committed to his "Boris Island" airport idea. Though, come to think of it, Boris Island would have required a bridge to the mainland...

Not sure we need Freud to tell us what this bridge obsession says about Boris' psychology.

RedToothBrush · 29/09/2018 22:55

thenational.scot/news/15887107.Bridge_from_Scotland_to_Ireland_could_create__Celtic_powerhouse_/
Bridge from Scotland to Ireland could create 'Celtic powerhouse'
(from 22nd Jan)

Professor Alan Dunlop, from the school of architecture at Liverpool University, said a combined road and rail crossing could be erected between Portpatrick, in Dumfries and Galloway, and Larne in Northern Ireland

and

www.thenational.scot/news/16696833.a-celtic-bridge-project-could-keep-us-sane-as-the-chaos-of-brexit-unfolds/
A Celtic bridge project could keep us sane as the chaos of Brexit unfolds
(from 8th Sept)

KEEP US SANE??????

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