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Brexit

Westministenders: “No Deal is Better Than a Bad Deal?”

991 replies

RedToothBrush · 27/09/2018 23:25

The key phrase that was once parroted by all the lead Brexiteers, and repeated by their social media followers.

BUT curiously, it seems that those who once said it with such conviction seem to be backing away from it.

Take a lot around at who is saying it, and who no longer seem to be. Certainly not with the same force.

May, alone, seems to have decided to nail herself to the mast of No Deal is Better than a Bad Deal in her post Salzberg Toddler Strop. She seemed to be announcing that in practice No Deal was now official government policy, because the EU weren’t playing ball. It wasn’t an abandonment of Chequers but it seemed close to it.

But who else is still saying it? It would seem its only the die hards on twitter and the Nigel Farage / Arron Banks camp.

Not people with tangible power. Not people who have to actually vote on the matter. Apart from Theresa.

David Davis who at one point seemed to be saying it every other day, now seems - along with Jacob Rees Mogg and Boris Johnson - to have moved to a Canada Plus position. They don’t seem to be anywhere near so enthusiastic about a No Deal. The ERG as a whole largely seems to be backing off the idea, though if it happened, they probably wouldn’t be too upset. They just they are starting to see more risk than even than even they would like to hazard as a first choice, contained within No Deal. When No Deal is starting to be perceived as too risky for disaster capitalists, you might start to pay attention.

But nope. Not Theresa.

Theresa has very firmly got it into her head that this is her ‘Iron Lady’ moment. The rhetoric about not being for turning, is deliberately evocative to a certain group. She’s trying to get a deal like Thatcher got with the CAP from the EU. Except we’ve been there and done that and politically is that even an option for the EU to do that in our current political climate with Trump and the Rise of the Authoritarians.

May’s previous track record, also points to her stubborness going above and beyond the point where it is sensible - or even sane - to continue to pursue. She is pig headed to the point of spite. She takes things personally when things going against her. In the Home Office she took cases to appeal which defy all sense of logic and public interest purpose. Its been up to the courts to tell her no in, no uncertain terms before she has eventually stopped. And in some cases she ignored this. Its petty, its arrogant and right now it's a clear and present danger to the national interest.

The Cabinet who have remained loyal to May up to this point, are also starting to recognise the danger. The Times has reported that Raab, Gove, Hunt and Javid are in this camp and May can not necessarily rely on them. They are said to be leaning towards the ERG position.

The problem being that the DUP seem to be going in the opposite direction in leaning towards a softer Brexit. They label both Chequerers and Canada as unworkable. The reality of the border is kicking in, in the circle that matters. The DUP can not ignore nor underestimate the potential for rising support for a United Ireland.

Theresa as a committed Unionist is now very much at odds with the DUP.

May also is facing rebellion for a reported 40 MPs over Canada, according to Amber Rudd. Again they are pushing for a softer option.

In the background is the revised labour policy which now supports a People’s Vote, if they can’t force a General Election. They also won’t support a deal for May. It's something of a fudged position with limited effect, but it's a move to a softer position than previously. Shadow Brexit Secretary Keir Starmer, also is alleged to have challenged the leadership by saying Remain would be an option during the Labour conference. McDonnell has very much denied this.

In October 2016, it was said by Donald Tusk that it was a choice between a very Hard Brexit or No Brexit.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37650077

It was also said by the former Polish Finance Minister that Hard Brexit was the easiest political choice for both the UK and Europe.
www.straitstimes.com/opinion/the-political-logic-of-hard-brexit

For everything that has gone on in the last two years, these two points of view seem to be holding up better than the majority that any British commentator has come out with.

And whilst Theresa might now be the only one still saying no deal is better than a bad deal, she is perhaps the closest to the political reality of the dynamics of how everything is going.

Her Salzburg speech, definitely came from a mess of her own making, as she was unable and unwilling to take different political approaches and she lacked pragmatism and flexibility. But at the same time, where she is now is also a result of always being something of a hostage to political circumstance too.

Her speech can also be read as an inadvertent announcement and a warning of ‘accidental no deal’ because she does recognise that all alternative political solutions domestically are impossible to her and she can only be saved by the EU. That’s not taking back control. That’s begging for a way out and for the EU to solve British political problems, which they have always said they would not intervene in.

And isn’t that just the irony.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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MyBrexitGoesOnHoliday · 29/09/2018 13:11

www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-fitness/boris-and-brexit-gym-punchbags-help-londoners-vent-their-rage-idUSKCN1M80E7

Londoners fed up with Brexit can vent their rage with a special gym routine that includes high-intensity exercises like pummeling punchbags bearing photographs of some of the main players like Boris Johnson
Grin I could do that!! Grin

MyBrexitGoesOnHoliday · 29/09/2018 13:18

Mrs8 Nissan is local to me. And yes they’ve voted to leave too....

However, I have yet to meet people who are actually worried about the way things are going. People are talking about buying/selling houses. About their next holiday in Europe/turkey in April 19 (that they booked and paid for Confused)
At most I can feel a sense that they have been deceived and they are caught up between what they thought they would get And the reality. As well as fear actually.

DGRossetti · 29/09/2018 13:33

www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/brexit-bankroller-arron-banks-launches-campaign-to-deselect-decent-liberal-tories-1-5715906

Millionaire Brexiteer Arron Banks, barred from joining the Conservatives, has mounted a campaign to deselect "remoaner" Tory MPs.

(contd)

DGRossetti · 29/09/2018 13:52

.

Westministenders: “No Deal is Better Than a Bad Deal?”
1tisILeClerc · 29/09/2018 14:27

@DGR, surely it is a 3 point plan, but never mind.

Violetparis · 29/09/2018 15:34

Just seen on twitter that there are problems with an app set up for the Tory Party conference. People are logging in and gaining access to MP's mobile numbers and changing details. And they keep telling us the Irish border problem can easily be solved with technology Shock

DGRossetti · 29/09/2018 16:34

www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/bishop-auckland-question-time-audience-member-goes-from-leave-to-remain-1-5714733

As we grind into the future, what will people like the lady (who put here point perfectly) think of politicians and democracy, if they feel lied to and cheated ?

It's bad enough that my generation has had to see the corrosive effect of Blairs riding roughshod over the sentiment of the nation. But for a subsequent generation to feel they were tricked into Brexit - used - and are then expected to pay the price ?

A lot has been written about Remainers hating Britain. But it's not a great future if Leavers find themselves hating it too. Well, not so much "Britain", more "The British" ?

I caught a TV prog this morning at the leisure centre, so subtitles on, sound off. But the caption was "EU tearing Britain apart". Sad

mostdays · 29/09/2018 16:40

I don't hate Britain, but I expect to hate what Britain will become.

I've been asking people about Brexit all day today. There's a surprisingly huge variation in views. My favourite has to be "let's just leave with no deal and we can be like Cuba". I don't have any hope left any more. We seem to be sleepwalking into disaster.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/09/2018 16:42

Wasn't it Libération who had an article saying the root of all the problems was:
the UK is convinced the EU is leaving the UK !

DGRossetti · 29/09/2018 17:08

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Westministenders: “No Deal is Better Than a Bad Deal?”
DGRossetti · 29/09/2018 17:10

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Westministenders: “No Deal is Better Than a Bad Deal?”
borntobequiet · 29/09/2018 17:17

Maybe the Toyota thing and pressure from Unite members will finally change Len McCluskey’s mind on Brexit.

Peregrina · 29/09/2018 17:17

And they keep telling us the Irish border problem can easily be solved with technology

Exactly my first thought.

Motheroffourdragons · 29/09/2018 18:25

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

DGRossetti · 29/09/2018 18:42

Is the worm turning ?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45693341

The UK "would regret it forever" if it lost its status as a world leader in car manufacturing after Brexit, Business Secretary Greg Clark has said.

He added it was "concerning" that Toyota UK had told the BBC that if Britain left the EU without a deal it would temporarily halt production at its factory in Burnaston, near Derby.

"We need a deal," Mr Clark said.

(contd)

Mrsr8 · 29/09/2018 19:26

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Peregrina · 29/09/2018 19:43

It seems that people from
Brexit Central are waking up to the reality.

I am sure that this lady is typical of very very many, like the majority of the rest of us the ramifications of the decision were too complex for the majority of us, so she was swayed by the Leave propaganda. She is honest enough to admit it, and gets a round of applause.

Personally I would hope she was right about a Remain vote another time although I am not wholly convinced.

RedToothBrush · 29/09/2018 19:51

I know - look how often banking software goes wrong.

I take it you know someone who works in banking software...

... Cos if you don't, multiple the above and then hide under the table rocking.

OP posts:
lonelyplanetmum · 29/09/2018 20:20

let's just leave with no deal and we can be like Cuba

Weather, beaches Cuba Libre and Mojitos?

Or Lack of the freedom of expression and other freedoms?

Mass executions, kangaroo courts and firing squads.

Requisitioning of businesses, property, farms?

Inability to ever leave? Queuing for limited food?

People begging for sunglasses, snorkels, sunblock, face-cream, clothes for their kids.

woman11017 · 29/09/2018 20:25

Guess who made the 'faulty' app? Wink
twitter.com/PrivacyMatters/status/1046072602844966912

woman11017 · 29/09/2018 20:29

James Patrick's twitter account has been suspended.

mostdays · 29/09/2018 20:33

Feck knows lonely. We can grow our own food, he assured me. All will be well, if we just embrace radical socialism.

woman11017 · 29/09/2018 20:35

And now unsuspended, itchy twitchy times.

lonelyplanetmum · 29/09/2018 20:55

pretty bird I didn't mean to pick up your typo. It was just a copy and paste font change thing. ( I'm the typo Queen- especially when cross, which funnily enough, is a frequent occurrence since about June 2016.)

TheElementsSong · 29/09/2018 21:09

I see there's yet another Holidays After Brexit thread in AIBU. Apart from the usual "it's going to be wall-to-wall unicorns" brigade, the thing that never fails to astonish me is the number of posters who still don't know anything about what could happen, show zero understanding of even the basic issues, and revert to "surely they won't let anything bad happen."

I just can't hard enough.