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Brexit

Westministenders: “No Deal is Better Than a Bad Deal?”

991 replies

RedToothBrush · 27/09/2018 23:25

The key phrase that was once parroted by all the lead Brexiteers, and repeated by their social media followers.

BUT curiously, it seems that those who once said it with such conviction seem to be backing away from it.

Take a lot around at who is saying it, and who no longer seem to be. Certainly not with the same force.

May, alone, seems to have decided to nail herself to the mast of No Deal is Better than a Bad Deal in her post Salzberg Toddler Strop. She seemed to be announcing that in practice No Deal was now official government policy, because the EU weren’t playing ball. It wasn’t an abandonment of Chequers but it seemed close to it.

But who else is still saying it? It would seem its only the die hards on twitter and the Nigel Farage / Arron Banks camp.

Not people with tangible power. Not people who have to actually vote on the matter. Apart from Theresa.

David Davis who at one point seemed to be saying it every other day, now seems - along with Jacob Rees Mogg and Boris Johnson - to have moved to a Canada Plus position. They don’t seem to be anywhere near so enthusiastic about a No Deal. The ERG as a whole largely seems to be backing off the idea, though if it happened, they probably wouldn’t be too upset. They just they are starting to see more risk than even than even they would like to hazard as a first choice, contained within No Deal. When No Deal is starting to be perceived as too risky for disaster capitalists, you might start to pay attention.

But nope. Not Theresa.

Theresa has very firmly got it into her head that this is her ‘Iron Lady’ moment. The rhetoric about not being for turning, is deliberately evocative to a certain group. She’s trying to get a deal like Thatcher got with the CAP from the EU. Except we’ve been there and done that and politically is that even an option for the EU to do that in our current political climate with Trump and the Rise of the Authoritarians.

May’s previous track record, also points to her stubborness going above and beyond the point where it is sensible - or even sane - to continue to pursue. She is pig headed to the point of spite. She takes things personally when things going against her. In the Home Office she took cases to appeal which defy all sense of logic and public interest purpose. Its been up to the courts to tell her no in, no uncertain terms before she has eventually stopped. And in some cases she ignored this. Its petty, its arrogant and right now it's a clear and present danger to the national interest.

The Cabinet who have remained loyal to May up to this point, are also starting to recognise the danger. The Times has reported that Raab, Gove, Hunt and Javid are in this camp and May can not necessarily rely on them. They are said to be leaning towards the ERG position.

The problem being that the DUP seem to be going in the opposite direction in leaning towards a softer Brexit. They label both Chequerers and Canada as unworkable. The reality of the border is kicking in, in the circle that matters. The DUP can not ignore nor underestimate the potential for rising support for a United Ireland.

Theresa as a committed Unionist is now very much at odds with the DUP.

May also is facing rebellion for a reported 40 MPs over Canada, according to Amber Rudd. Again they are pushing for a softer option.

In the background is the revised labour policy which now supports a People’s Vote, if they can’t force a General Election. They also won’t support a deal for May. It's something of a fudged position with limited effect, but it's a move to a softer position than previously. Shadow Brexit Secretary Keir Starmer, also is alleged to have challenged the leadership by saying Remain would be an option during the Labour conference. McDonnell has very much denied this.

In October 2016, it was said by Donald Tusk that it was a choice between a very Hard Brexit or No Brexit.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37650077

It was also said by the former Polish Finance Minister that Hard Brexit was the easiest political choice for both the UK and Europe.
www.straitstimes.com/opinion/the-political-logic-of-hard-brexit

For everything that has gone on in the last two years, these two points of view seem to be holding up better than the majority that any British commentator has come out with.

And whilst Theresa might now be the only one still saying no deal is better than a bad deal, she is perhaps the closest to the political reality of the dynamics of how everything is going.

Her Salzburg speech, definitely came from a mess of her own making, as she was unable and unwilling to take different political approaches and she lacked pragmatism and flexibility. But at the same time, where she is now is also a result of always being something of a hostage to political circumstance too.

Her speech can also be read as an inadvertent announcement and a warning of ‘accidental no deal’ because she does recognise that all alternative political solutions domestically are impossible to her and she can only be saved by the EU. That’s not taking back control. That’s begging for a way out and for the EU to solve British political problems, which they have always said they would not intervene in.

And isn’t that just the irony.

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DGRossetti · 30/09/2018 11:45

If someone had told me 3 years ago a Tory government would be risking 100s of 1000s of jobs in the Automotive sector, stockpling meds/food, appointing a food supplies minister, that we'd need an international driving permit to travel to France.....

cf - US prohibition Hmm

DGRossetti · 30/09/2018 11:49

By the way, the current BBC headline,

Brexit plan critics are playing politics, Theresa May says

er ... but aren't YOU a fucking politician too, you fucking dim person ?
AREN'T YOU PLAYING POLITICS TOO ?

I can't begin to describe how many shades of dangerous that sort of thinking is, if allowed to go unchallenged - promoting the nasty idea that MY motive are pure, so YOU must be a heretic.

And we all know what we must do to heretics ... even if we don't want to. God himself demands it.

It's telling that no one seems to think it's odd anymore.

lonelyplanetmum · 30/09/2018 11:50

If someone had told me 3 years ago a Tory government would be risking 100s of 1000s of jobs in the Automotive sector, stockpling meds/food, appointing a food supplies minister, that we'd need an international driving permit to travel to France.....

I'd have thought that person insane.

Yes this.

And if you'd been told that the pound would suddenly plummeted and businesses were haemorrhaging to the EU left, right and centre. Or that politicians said fuck business would you have believed it?

HesterThrale · 30/09/2018 11:53

...if the government of the day manages to clump an majority of disaffected people into a fairly homogenous mass where people very quickly realise they are not alone and in fact are pretty much the majority.
They were better of ensuring it was merely a disparate collection of minorities - none of whom had any chance of forming a larger more coherent mass. Gays here. Blacks there. Muslims over the road. But a 48+% of mainly white, middle class folk ? Plus a contingent (see that QT video) of people feeling conned?

DGR interesting thought. Previously separate minorities had less power because of 'divide and rule'.
Has the government achieved the own goal of uniting lots of minorities and groups under the same anti-Brexit banner?

They'd better watch out.

1tisILeClerc · 30/09/2018 11:56

The economy can withstand a lot of 'messing about' but to deliberately alienate one half of the public with the other is tantamount to inciting civil war, surely?

BigChocFrenzy · 30/09/2018 12:06

CAA: Flights / aviation / aerospace

Sobering pdf from the CAA about no deal Brexit implication for pilots, cabin staff, aircraft components ...

http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP1714BrexitAviationSafety.pdf

Also from CAA - details impossible actions to do in the available time:

https://info.caa.co.uk/eu-exit/
"The CAA has developed this microsite to be a central source of information for the aviation and aerospace industries about the actions they would need to take to be prepared for a no deal withdrawal from the EU and no continued mutual recognition.
Where a specific action is required, this is underlined."

woman11017 · 30/09/2018 12:10

Authoritarian Chic from Mrs May from Maidenhead
This year, Mrs May is rocking a handmaiden frock in the same vibrant totalitarian blue as her security barriers.
'Great to be back in Birmingham for #CPC2018. We have a busy few days ahead of us, talking about how we’ll make life better for ordinary working people'
Mrs May told us, and we agree, death by starvation is always better than human rights

Westministenders: “No Deal is Better Than a Bad Deal?”
jasjas1973 · 30/09/2018 12:10

Don't worry BCF, May says she believes in Brexit and Brexit will be a success regardless of any negotiations.

So all is good, have some Cake and eat it.

1tisILeClerc · 30/09/2018 12:36

{As a responsible regulator, we need to prepare for the possibility that no agreement is reached between the UK and the EU.}
Just one line from the CAA webmicrosite.
Why is it speaking as if pilots are schoolchildren? They are flying aircraft worth hundreds of millions with up to 450 passengers on board in their care, what's with the patronising language?

MyBrexitUnicornDied · 30/09/2018 12:47

Don't worry BCF, May says she believes in Brexit and Brexit will be a success regardless of any negotiations

Or indeed regardless of reality

1tisILeClerc · 30/09/2018 12:59

I am very relieved that Mrs May believes in HER Brexit. Just a pity that no one else on the planet has the same interpretation of Brexit as her.

1tisILeClerc · 30/09/2018 13:12

{Police condemn 'beyond low' thieves who stole nappies from food bank in Salford}
Although 'only' a small headline (and it is despicable of course) the world is watching the UK implode.

bellinisurge · 30/09/2018 13:30

I keep having the song "Look What you made me do" going around in my head.
Tip: no one makes you do bad things to people.

prettybird · 30/09/2018 15:08

I know one shouldn't judge people on what they are wearing but .....

WTF is that blue dress that May is wearing in those photos? Shock

Talk about shapeless. Confused

Mrsr8 · 30/09/2018 15:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Mrsr8 · 30/09/2018 15:16

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

1tisILeClerc · 30/09/2018 15:31

As dressing gowns go it's quite stylish, although it could do with a pocket with a nice unicorn motif to put her hankie.

BigChocFrenzy · 30/09/2018 15:33

This is a terrifying - fictional - look a few years into the future
All too plausible.
We must make sure this NEVER happens - and keep a bloody close watch on the disgraced Werrity-Dniffer:

Future Look 2025 : The Privatisation Of The NHS – Welcome To Little America

http://truepublica.org.uk/united-kingdom/future-look-2025-the-total-collapse-of-the-british-nhs/

RedToothBrush · 30/09/2018 15:58

Sam Coates Times @samcoatestimes
Greg Clark at the HuffPo fringe seems to be inviting business to challenge the immigration proposals when they are published
I’m reading between the lines, he wasn’t that explicit about that - but he’s suggesting that proposals will evolve over time with the “mobility” element of the future EU-UK trade agreement

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RedToothBrush · 30/09/2018 15:59

Paul Waugh @paulwaugh
Woah. Brexiteer ex CBI chief Digby Jones tells #CPC - and gets applause for it - that Boris's 'f*ck business' remark 'showed him up to be the irrelevance he really is'.
'showed him up to be the irrelevance...and offensive person he really is' [full quote]

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RedToothBrush · 30/09/2018 16:02

Faisal Islam @faisalislam
Mood #CPC18 Grassroots members who heard PM not convinced by Chequers, but want to stay loyal to PM and not impressed by Operation Boris and “deranged”, want to give her a chance after she said EU had to respond to her plans... one said “till October” - which is tomorrow.
Mood 2: Two Tory MPs in Birmingham have now volunteered their fears about the effectiveness of that slick Labour ad/video on towns “Our Town” - being discussed on the Whatsapp group
Mood 3: Surprised by presence of more than a few Tories at nearby “People’s Vote” march - thought it would be mainly Libdems... adamant what appears self evident - theyve entirely lost their party - can be overturned... Number of their MPs backing is creeping up, tho still small.

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Annandale · 30/09/2018 16:04

Yes could never get my head round Johnson's 'fuck business' comment. I think he might have been trying to season his chunks of the Trump populist menu with a little British 'sod the bosses' stuff. Suggests he's never seen himself as a Conservative but as a freebootin' swashbucklin' Tory. Nob.

RedToothBrush · 30/09/2018 16:05

Julia Hartley-Brewer @juliahb1
Dear Tories gathering at party conference and wondering how to win the next election,

BUILD MORE HOUSES.
BUILD MORE HOUSES.
BUILD MORE HOUSES.

You’re welcome.

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RedToothBrush · 30/09/2018 16:09

Alex Wickham @alexwickham
Tory lines to take on Theresa May’s Festival of Brexit. Particularly enjoyed “Labour messed up the millennium dome” and “do we only need to do this to repair the UK’s standing on the world stage after Brexit?”

Westministenders: “No Deal is Better Than a Bad Deal?”
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JWIM · 30/09/2018 16:10

Is Ms JHB missing a word - Build more SOCIAL housing?