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Brexit

Just how bad is it going to be? No scaremongering.

362 replies

BoyMeetsWorld · 21/09/2018 15:19

I'm very very worried as, I'm sure, are a lot of people.

Please can we have a thread with no scaremongering or speculation where we objectively look at just how bad it is likely to be if No Deal happens which Ms May seems set upon. For those of us left here with no escape route to live anywhere else...those of us who aren't currently in poverty but by no means rich, just middle earners with kids.

What is the most realistic situation we can expect to manage the horror stories and prepare properly? I'd like to try and cover all aspects of daily life which are likely to be impacted in a substantial way.

OP posts:
YeOldeTrout · 24/09/2018 20:27

GATT & WTO establish the rules for how other countries have to deal with UK in absence of UK having any deals with them. If UK has no deals with anyone, we have to offer same tariffs to everyone. But other countries (who all have deals with someone), are usually obliged (by their other trade agreements) to go up to the maximum tariffs allowed by WTO rules for countries they have no deal with. At least I think that's what JasonJHunter keeps saying. Plus there's the tariff rate quotas, which I don't pretend to understand, but has some sort of impact on how much we can import at certain prices and tariff free/when tariffs applied rates. Everyone else in the WTO helps to get decide what the UK quotas would be. Sovereignty, anyone?

1tisILeClerc · 24/09/2018 20:28

I think the same as you Mistrigri. WTO make the framework and countries that want to trade have to negotiate between themselves and fill in the numbers.

1tisILeClerc · 24/09/2018 20:35

I had a quick look at the WTO report a while back and stopped after about 3 of the 140 pages because my head hurt. It was sort of interesting as I was looking at it because we were at the 'shouty' stage and some were saying how much trade the UK did. When you look at the WTO info it is difficult to make the UK out in and among all the other data. Basically we trade about the same as France and a bit over half of Germany's output. This is before the Vote of course. Thus we are / were noticeable but not a massive player. I think there are about 42 trade blocks of which ours with the EU is just one.

woman11017 · 24/09/2018 21:03

More on the IEA: "Much has been written in the past few months about the Institute of Economic Affairs, the right-wing think tank. But there is one element of its work that could do with more scrutiny: its maths.

The lead author? One Mr S Singham. It is, on the face of it, an imposing piece of statistical analysis. There's just one problem - its conclusions cannot bear any weight.

This is not a question of politics or economics, but maths.

First, this work breaks all the rules of basic data hygiene and model designs. The peculiar way the model is fitted together means it could never produce a reliable or stable output that could be relied upon.

Second, the model's whole weight sits on assumptions that are odd or indefensible.

For example, all else being equal, it assumes making it cheaper to lay people off will lead to a rise in health spending and a rise in domestic banks' supply of credit. That, in turn will lead to a rise in output.

But also: the IEA's maths relies - in a fundamental way - on a misunderstanding of how GDP is calculated and what drives health spending. Somewhat suspicious, I sought to replicate parts of his analysis, using the sources he cites. I will cut to the chase: I could not duplicate his results.

For example:

Mr Singham says this model explains more than 90% of the difference between countries' growth rates. That is extraordinarily high: a model that gets almost everything right. I get a number under 40%.

When Mr Singham runs the model, it gives the (obviously true) finding that education is positively linked to growth. When I run the model, it does not find this.

When Mr Singham runs the model, it links a higher domestic supply of credit to higher growth. My back-engineering of this model shows the opposite.

The issue here is that when I run this model it gives bananas results. When he runs it, it gives clear and elegant results which are all of the right scale. This is curious.

I have asked Mr Singham for his data. I am also quite curious about the indices he produced which do the final piece of linking of deregulation to growth, but it is impossible to piece together their dataset from the outside. Mr Singham says he is intending to publish work in journals, so has declined to share his data. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45625724

Benjaminbuttonschild · 24/09/2018 21:54

Op you asked how bad Brexit would be and for no scaremongering.

This video sums it up

Buteo · 24/09/2018 22:55

YeOldeTrout Tariff rate quotas are going to be a problem. At the moment, say, New Zealand can sell 3000 tonnes of lamb to the EU, so that quota can be split any way across 28 countries. The UK has decided that because over the last 3 years on average the UK has bought 500 tonnes of NZ lamb so that will be our quota and the EU27 can have the remaining 2500 tonnes. But, say in 2021 the UK only wants to buy 100 tonnes, the EU is still limited to 2500 tonnes, and NZ now has 400 tonnes it now can’t sell. Previously, that 400 tonnes could have been sold within the other 27 countries as part of the EU28 quota.

Buteo · 24/09/2018 22:56

Apologies for lack of paragraphs - MN mobile site seems to have lost its carriage return function Hmm

Blinkingblimey · 25/09/2018 14:26

This is a relatively good description of where things currently are .....
m.youtube.com/watch?v=7kfw6-N-uAM&feature=share

I’m really concerned that those who created this mess should be sorting it out by admitting their mistakes but Johnson, Gove et al seem happy to watch the country go down the drain😖

lonelyplanetmum · 25/09/2018 14:42

It's a step up from Farage anyway giving Jason Hunter BBC airtime. Can he be PM please?

twofingerstoEverything · 27/09/2018 08:38

meanwhile the government appoints a food supplies minister...

I'm sure some will still shout 'project fear!'

bellinisurge · 27/09/2018 08:41

Fucking disgusting we even have to think about this. Shame on anyone who voted Leave.
This is a government appointment, not from those who voted Remain.

YeOldeTrout · 27/09/2018 08:55

I guess you could say that business confidence is not very high....

One in ten UK businesses believe they would likely go bankrupt if goods were delayed by just 10 – 30 minutes at customs as a result of Brexit, according to new research from the Chartered Institute of Procurement & Supply (CIPS).

A quarter of UK businesses will stockpile goods to alleviate the impact of customs delays
One in ten UK supply chain managers would prefer a no-deal to the Chequers plan
Half of UK companies would struggle to find suppliers and skills in the UK post-Brexit

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