Westministenders: Gin O'Clock

[RedToothBrush]

After disaster after Salzberg and a very predictable humilation over the Chequers Deal which the ERG reject, moderate Brexiteers reject, Remainers reject and the EU reject....

May does a press conference...

...which is delayed by a power shortage inside No. 10.

And....

The paragraph thing ( not working) seems to be a Mumsnet problem across all platforms (web based and mobile site)

Except the app or at least my ancient version of the app

Daniel Kawczynski MP @dkshrewsbury Now at Tescos in Shrewsbury. Please remember EU protectionist racket means inefficient EU growers preferred to other non EU Mediterranean growers,due to massive tariffs imposed by EU. This leads to you paying more for your products! No more after March 2019! #Brexit. Jim Cornelius @ jim_cornelius HI Daniel. I zoomed in on your photo, and couldn't see clearly - but - at this time of year, almost certainly, those lemons are imported from South Africa. They come in on a 0% tariff under the entry price system.^

Here's some from Aldi. And here's some lemons and limes from Sainsbury's. Again the lemons are coming in on a 0% tariff because we have an FTA with South Africa. The limes are from Mexico. They also come in on a 0% tariff, because we have an FTA with Mexico. These Sainsbury oranges, also from South Africa, also on a 0% tariff because of the FTA with South Africa and the other SADC countries (o Botswana, Lesotho, Mozambique, Namibia, and Swaziland[Eswatini]). Some of the other oranges there, in Sainsbury's, are from Egypt. We have an FTA with Egypt, so guess what? These oranges come in on a 0% tariff. See these kiwi fruit? They come from Chile and these also come in on a 0% tariff. You know why? Yep, you guessed it. we have an FTA with Chile.. These blueberries here. They're from Zimbabwe. Zimbabwe is part of the ESA group of African countries. So under the ESA FTA they enter the UK on a 0% tariff too.

Curiously there's no specific tariff entry for blueberries it is under "Fruit of the genus Vaccinium - Other".. See these pineapples? They're from Costa Rica. We have an FTA with Costa Rica. So they come in on a 0% tariff.. By the way, in case you think I'm making this us - Here's the tariff schedule for pineapples from Costa Rica.. See these mangoes? They're from Peru. There's no tariff on mangoes, so it's imported on 0%, but if there was a tariff it wouldn't apply to these mangoes because we have an FTA with Peru.. See these papayas? They come from Jamaica. The EU has an EPA with Jamaica. In fact, it has an EPAs with most of the Carribean. Most of the Commonwealth.

Anyway - they come in on a 0% tariff wherever they're from.. See these spuds? They're from Israel, and they're imported on a 0% tariff from there.. Almost everything, if not everything, behind you in the fruit & veg section of TESCO comes in on a 0% tariff because of FTAs and Preference deals, or because it's 0% anyway, or it's sourced from the EU. In fact, this is true of most of our food imports.

The paragraph thing ( not working) seems to be a Mumsnet problem across all platforms (web based and mobile site)

Takes more than that to stop someone who worked on KERMIT in 1986 and can program bit-slice processors ....

{Takes more than that to stop someone who worked on KERMIT in 1986}
I'm not sure I would want to be admitting that. Miss Piggy will get upset!

Weird. I'm on the app (IOS) and have had no paragraph issues.

Nicky Morgan says Norway, but I think Stephen Pound is saying here that a Norway-style deal doesn't work for Ireland?

mobile.twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1044261233107652608/video/1

Norway needs some bells and whistles to work for Ireland. There is a physical border between Norway and the EU.

But it would make things a lot simpler, because the Uk would be in the single market for most or all purposes (so goods could circulate freely because of regulatory alignment).

It was just the website. Something was stopping "CR" from being treated as "CR-LF" ... sort of thing which happens when a default is lost.

Or found .

How are Brexiteers taking the news that post-brexit it's a free-for-all for immigration ? Doesn't matter where you come from ...

Seeing the news from yesterday regarding immigrations EU citizens will be treated like anyone else, I’m now thinking that TM doesn’t want an agreement with the EU. Stopping the FOM (and reducing immigration) has always been her one aim.
So she and her govenement seem to have enough resources to put together a plan for immigration after March 19, one that is incompatible with a norvegian style of agreement etc... But somehow very little for plan for the consequences of a no deal.

I’m now convinced she just wants out just to get immigrants out of the country (bar the ones she really needs but even then she will make sure to treat them as second class citizens and make their life difficult - see visa etc etc).

:(:(:(

I t think it will be a free for all immigration.
It will be immigration where people will have to jump through hoops and know they can be sent back at any time.
Basically what they want is for EU citizens to feel the same pain and be treated just as appaulingly as other immigrants.

If you are a capitalist, immigrants are a fucking godsend.

They keep costs low. They don't require any real investment (someone else can do that). They pay lots of lovely tax. They can't vote, and can be denied basic rights. They're cheap to run, as they can't claim benefits or use the health service. And they can be kicked out of the country with no pension liabilities to worry about.

What's not to like ?

The UK has become the elderly incontinent hamster. It needs to decide if it is to go out with a wild night of sex, drugs and rock 'n' roll and die of heart failure, or to be put in a shoebox and simply wither away.

1tisILeClerc Which option is which Brexit route?

Even David Squires is obsessed with Brexit now in his piece on last week’s Premier League: www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2018/sep/25/david-squires-on-no-country-for-proper-football-men

I especially like the Cardiff manager’s Prexit (Premier League exit) speech.

Apologies to people who do not like football.

Brexit is taking me to new lows I'm about to read about football

Whichever route you take, none of them are significantly 'upwards' in most peoples lifetime.

Well done to Jim Cornelius for pointing out to Daniel Kawczynski the realities of the fruit and veg trade. One of the biggest lies of the Brexit campaign has been that food will miraculously become cheaper after Brexit. This ignores four fundamental issues:

1. The EU (and therefore the UK) already buys fruit from most of the world with zero tariffs. There is no deal that is better than 'zero'.

2. Page 1 of any Economics textbook - the market price of a product is determined by the meeting point of what the sellers are prepared to sell at and what the buyers are prepared to pay. The UK retail price of lemons is determined where 30 million buyers meet 10,000 shop owners. E.g. the market decides that retail price of lemons is £1.

3. Consumers do not buy directly from the producers. There are exporters, wholesalers and retailers in the chain as well, and each looks to take a cut of the profits. The retail price of lemons might be £1 each. The exporters might be buying from the producers at 10p each. They sell to the wholesalers at 20p each - who sell on to the supermarkets at 50p each - who sell them to the customer at £1.

If the UK finds a new supplier of lemons, 'Fruitopia,' where lemons can be produced for 7p each, what will the UK retail price be? The answer is still £1. The 3p 'saving' is taken by the others in the supply chain. The consumer doesn't benefit.

4. The lemon producers in 'Fruitopia' have access to the internet. Gone are the days when they were selling blind. They can see that the price being paid to producers in other countries is 10p. Even though they can sell for 7p and make a profit, they can see that they can sell at 10p and make a bumper profit.

Keir Starmer just gave a good speech. Standing ovation when he said remain would be an option on the people's vote.

@jameschappers
@Keir_Starmer: "Nobody is ruling out Remain as an option". Shadow Brexit Secretary looks quite taken aback by the standing ovation #Lab2018

I honestly think that a lot of them, including Starmer, have no idea what hell the EU 5.5m, and we are about to go through.

Hopefully the message is filtering through.

Standing ovation when he said remain would be an option on the people's vote.

Voting pull yesterday

LABOUR TORY

Today:
LABOUR TORY

If peoples vote with remain option confirmed ...

LABOUR TORY

Standing ovation when he said remain would be an option on the people's vote

This is rekindling the embers of hope. I’ve been disappointed before though.