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Brexit

Westministenders: Gin O'Clock

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 21/09/2018 14:08

After disaster after Salzberg and a very predictable humilation over the Chequers Deal which the ERG reject, moderate Brexiteers reject, Remainers reject and the EU reject....

May does a press conference...

...which is delayed by a power shortage inside No. 10.

And....

GinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGin
GinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGin

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lonelyplanetmum · 28/09/2018 12:06

DRG -Political discrimination is quite a complex area of law that I used to deal with in a previous life.

At the moment you need to look at two areas of law. The concise answer is that you are correct and that the building company's -merited- selection method is probably unfair dismissal and/or discriminatory. Depending on which claim it is the builders may have to meet qualifying criteria about employment status though.

Anyone dismissed for a Remain or Leave belief is likely to be protected, although it hasn't been tested yet. Once we crash out deal-less, I think we will see all discrimination protections being eroded. (Ironically, one of the main political groups to have benefited from political protections is the BNP who even asked for the ECHR's help to extend protection.)

The position is this...
Employees who are dismissed for political views are expressly protected under the unfair dismissal provisions of the Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Act 2013 and they are protected to a certain extent by the Equality Act 2010 as well.

  1. If the builders had employee status and could prove they were dismissed for their political views they could claim unfair dismissal regardless of how long they'd been there. (The Tory's extension of the two-year qualifying period for unfair dismissal claims does not apply where the reason or principal reason for dismissal relates to the employee's political opinions or affiliation. )

2.With the discrimination element of the claim, under the Equality Act 2010 it was first thought that political beliefs were not protected.

However, as a result of decided cases political views may be treated as philosophical beliefs in some cases:

  • A belief in the BNP did not count as a philosophical belief in an early case.
-Then in 2010 it was confirmed that a belief in a political philosophy or doctrine such as socialism, Marxism or free-market capitalism might qualify for protection (Grainger v Nicholson ). -Then in 2012 in Redfearn v The United Kingdom a dismissed driver who was a BNP councillor won an ECHR case (ironic huh) which led to the change in the law making it easier to claim unfair dismissal based on political affiliations. -In 2013 in Olivier v Department of Work and Pensions a Labour Party supporter showed an employee's belief in democratic socialism could be protected. -In 2015 General Municipal and Boilermakers Union v Keith Henderson a GMB regional organiser showed that a left-wing belief in democratic socialism was capable of being protected as a philosophical belief but there was a lack of evidence in that case that it was his beliefs that caused any discriminatory treatment. -In 2016 Harron v Chief Constable of Dorset Police a 'belief in the proper and efficient use of public money in the public sector' was potentially protected as a 'philosophical belief' too.

So until we get the inevitable bonfire of workers', environmental and food protections, anyone dismissed for a Remain or Leave belief is likely to be protected.Its not really like looking at affiliation, part affiliation or membership of a political party its more about if the belief is genuinely held and is cogent, serious,cohesive and worthy of respect in a democratic society (which of course is subjective and arguable).

Incidentally I needed a new plumber last year and I deliberately chose one who I was told had a Dutch wife as I thought was less likely to be a Brexiteer.

DGRossetti · 28/09/2018 12:20

lonelyplanetmum

wins the prize for most detail in a post. Sort of Brexiteer Kryptonite really ...

Incidentally I needed a new plumber last year and I deliberately chose one who I was told had a Dutch wife as I thought was less likely to be a Brexiteer.

But that choice isn't covered by legislation - it's a personal transaction ? (In addition, it's not a particularly valid premise. After all Gisela Stuart was a cheerleader for Leave ...)

1tisILeClerc · 28/09/2018 12:21

{Incidentally I needed a new plumber last year}
It sounds like you broke your old one!
I am very unhappy about Guy Verhofstadt's comment about possible 'tit for tat'.

1tisILeClerc · 28/09/2018 12:23

I suppose for me in that case having a civil war in the UK could be a good move as UK expats can then apply for asylum.

lonelyplanetmum · 28/09/2018 12:26

But that choice isn't covered by legislation - it's a personal transaction ?

Yes because the plumber in that situation is genuinely self employed. They are not my 'employee' or ' worker' so not protected by legislation.

(Anyway I'm morally in the right!)

lonelyplanetmum · 28/09/2018 12:31

It sounds like you broke your old one!

Plumbing in the house would break anyone... but no the old one went awol whilst doing up his own house!

Icantreachthepretzels · 28/09/2018 14:09

The director of 'postcards from the 48%' refused to have any leavers working on his film. He knew plenty who wanted to be a part of the project and he told them no because they voted leave. They told him such discrimination was illegal under EU employment law ... he just looked at them Grin

It is currently illegal to refuse employment or fire people because they voted leave - but only because that is covered in EU legislation. Which they voted to get rid of. In essence they voted to fire themselves - they knew what they were voting for - it's what they wanted. So - they can't complain without admitting they voted the wrong way. Quite the catch 22 for them.

See you all on the next thread.

Icantreachthepretzels · 28/09/2018 14:11

Also - and not especially relevant - but my mum loves Terry Christian. Only since the referendum though. She used to think he was a right wanker - now he's one of her favourite people, because he is so openly rude about leavers.

DGRossetti · 28/09/2018 14:26

It is currently illegal to refuse employment or fire people because they voted leave - but only because that is covered in EU legislation.

I would actually hope that before that it's because the vote was a secret ballot, so we don't know how any individual voted.

Has any reputable polling organisation done a poll asking people how they voted, and correlated with the 48/52 split. Because I'm guessing there will be quite a few "shy Leavers" now.

TheElementsSong · 28/09/2018 14:32

Why would Leave voters need to be fired from their jobs? Surely, as they knew they were voting to be poorer and for job losses, because "what price freedom," they ought to be volunteering to quit Confused? Shouldn't they be pulling together, having faith and BeLeaving to make Brexit a success?

lonelyplanetmum · 28/09/2018 14:43

they ought to be volunteering to quit ?

To be fair they say they would do this. Leave voters are statistically prepared for themselves or their relatives to lose jobs.

Just to be able to sit there happy in the knowledge that less Poles are arriving to work in London? Sigh.
^
www.ft.com/content/1b636ba8-76b3-11e7-a3e8-60495fe6ca71^

http://uk.businessinsider.com/yougov-poll-leave-voters-happy-for-relatives-to-lose-jobs-over-brexit-2017-8

Icantreachthepretzels · 28/09/2018 14:45

Yes ... but statistically leave voters are retired. They are willing to give up jobs they already gave up many years ago. The real question is - are they willing to give up their pensions?

DGRossetti · 28/09/2018 14:52

The real question is - are they willing to give up their pensions?

When inflation starts rising, they will have. Let's just hope house prices don't fall too far as well.

lonelyplanetmum · 28/09/2018 14:56

But the thing is when inflation rises, house prices fall, pensions worth less the Brexit brigade will say I would have happened anyway.

Like the plummeted pound and knock on effect of high street household names. The retort is it ' Ahhh it would have happened anyway' . Probably the same with the Minister for food supply. Oh we'd have needed one of those anyway.

DGRossetti · 28/09/2018 14:56

Inspired Hmm by this thread, I was delighted to see that you can buy squirrel meat in the UK ...

www.wildmeat.co.uk/products/squirrel (WARNING contains a picture of what a defurred squirrel looks like)

So that's definitely on the "to try list" (joining zebra, crocodile and some sort of gazelle or antelope).

They also do rabbit and wild boar Smile

lonelyplanetmum · 28/09/2018 14:56

" it" would have happened anyway.

lonelyplanetmum · 28/09/2018 14:58

Ewwwww poor Tufty- £4.95

DGRossetti · 28/09/2018 15:00

Wasn't Tufty a Red Squirrel ????

Either way £4.95 for a whole one isn't too shabby.

lonelyplanetmum · 28/09/2018 15:09

With the pelt removed 'tis hard to tell the colour. I guess they may taste a little nutty?

DGRossetti · 28/09/2018 15:18

With the pelt removed 'tis hard to tell the colour. I guess they may taste a little nutty?

Well I'd hope Red Squirrels (in the UK at least) aren't on the menu. But Grey (or gray) squirrels - as vermin - are.

The comments from customers are quite encouraging ... most saying it's delicious and not too gamey.

I was pleased to have a venison curry in Amesbury a while ago. Nice that they were using local produce ........

lonelyplanetmum · 28/09/2018 15:23

The Heseltines will be ok. They shot 350 in their arboretum ! They hate them.

lonelyplanetmum · 28/09/2018 15:24

Grays of course. Reds are protected... for now.

1tisILeClerc · 28/09/2018 15:38

Crocodile tastes a bit like chicken.
I can get rabbit in the local supermarket but beef is less farting around.

DGRossetti · 28/09/2018 15:41

Crocodile tastes a bit like chicken.

Grin

My recollection is it was tough, fatty, and not worth talking about. (Ostrich is nice).

I can get rabbit in the local supermarket but beef is less farting around.

(racks memory) .... Lapin ????

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