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Brexit

Westministenders: Back to School

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 30/08/2018 13:01

No, I'm not referring to the start of a new parliamentary season, I'm referring to the number of politicians who need to literally go back to school. Its embarassing, and worrying.

Anyway, here is a slightly lengthy, end summer news round up for you.

The Brexit Headlines
It seems to be Cabinet Office policy to push for the Chequers Deal or for No Deal Even though Macron has very firm, plainly and clearly said "non" in no uncertain terms. Its significant because its come from the official Brexit Department and not from a sweating Dominic Raab at Dexeu.

He has however delivered the first batch of the Brexit Untechnical Papers which are supposed to advise what to do in the event of No Deal. In reality this is a PR exercise, which makes the assumption that some sort of minimual deal will have been done, rather than no deal at all, combined with a very practical plan for 'a wing and a prayer'. Which is a bit of an issue if we decide that we really are going to stick to the line that its Chequers or no deal.

These untechnical papers are ludicarious shallow, which some having the audaciency to say "plan for the news rules, but we haven't actually decided what the news rules are and we'll get back to you as soon as we've made them up". The completely skirt the entire subject of NI, saying merely, more or less "oh that one will just work itself out". Despite the untechnical papers don't include the crucial aviation one, which apparently was held back because it was regarded as 'too shambolic' which is quite the statement, if you've read any of them. Nor do they include details of the contract for hundreds of portaloos to line our motorways so that lorry drivers can still take a pee whilst they are stuck in queues for days. They might starve and no one else will have any food because all the lorries are stuck, but hell they'll be no exposure on the M20 to offend you.

Its not quite as bleak as it sounds though. The Chequers Deal is a vision of our future relationship with the EU. Its not the Withdrawal Deal. And the Withdrawal Deal (and backstop) is the thing that needs to be done in Oct / Nov. Which then will lead on to talks about the Chequers Deal. You can't talk about Chequers without having ALREADY agreed the Withdrawal. Which is very important to keep in mind as its continuely being lost in the media coverage. Could it be that all the sudden noise from the Cabinet Office, is an attempt to distract in the short term to protect the Withdrawal phrase?

Also as an alternative to Chequers, Macron is reportedly expected to propose something akin to an 'associate member' style agreement for the UK with a vision for the EU and its allies to form a series of "concentric circles", with Britain closely tied to the 27 "core" EU member states. If this sounds familiar it is. Guy Verhofstadt has been banging on about this as an idea since before Brexit. Its also a plan which has long been muted by Barnier too. It will probably go down like a lead balloon here, but there is a political will in the EU for a deal. There just isn't in the UK.

More generally in UK politics
Jeremy Corbyn has had a nice relaxing summer but after the hard upcoming weeks ahead, I think he'll still be looking forward to his holiday plans for the Autumn Break, when he visits Israel to profess he's still definitely not an anti-semite, because look he's visiting the evil Zion and talking to Jews. He will spend the next few month telling us that No Deal is a Very Bad Idea, whilst also trying to get his MPs to vote in ways that are a Very Bad Idea. Meanwhile the rest of Labour will indulge in a very public slanging match which most normal people have long since stopped caring about in anyway because they are so bored and disappointed in how far heads have been inserted up backsides.

Theresa May, has been in Africa, where she is trying to get trade deals with lots of countries we already have trade deals with through the EU. She's also in the midst of a fight with Spreadsheet Phil who has been busy telling her to butt out of the budget and realising information to undermine the 'No Deal' narrative all week. Oh and trying to persuade beg Mark Carney to stay another year at the BoE cos no one wants his job. Rees-Smug has been up to his usual English Gentleman Act where he replicates the MPs of the Victorian Era who were into fucking those from the colonies whilst stripping them for asserts, with impecable manners. Boris Johnson is looking for his next photo op where he can look zany and drop a headline grabbing offensive comment. If it winds May up, so much the better. The Tory Creche outing to Birmingham looks like its going to be a scream.

I should say something about the LDs here, so here's a tumbleweed for you.

Back to Brexit
The fishing wars have started. Michael Gove has yet to be sighted in a souwester though (give it time). The Scallop Wars are an insight into why we need a relationship with the EU. It turns out that the French are pissed because we've been using these big fuck off ships which dredge the sea bed and are a ecological disaster and haven't observed a break for a 'breeding season' this year, whilst the French are forced to do so by law. We had been observing an informal agreement where we stick to the same rules, but for some reason this year, some bright spark though it was a bad idea for us to do so. So the French have got a bit shirty in response. Gove is spitting the dummy and saying we will do something. The reality? Well what exactly can we do apart from go to the EU and use the EU courts apart from patrolling the seas with a lot of customs boats and officials we don't have? Cod Wars III here we come!

We've also announced plans for brand new white whale money pit satellite to circle solely over the UK. We aren't in need of coverage for the rest of the world, so we aren't going to waste money on flying over anywhere else who isn't prepared to help contribute financially to its construction. It is going under the draft name of 'Heliocentre'

In other news
If none of this cheers your spirits, then great news; Good Old Nige is making a come back!!! He's dead excited because he's planning his first big Nazi Leave means Leave rally in Bolton where he act out his childhood Hitler fantasy. It'll a cost you a fiver to get in. He's also bored and worried about his income, as he's now considering getting pasted in the London Mayoral Election for the publicity. So soon his face will be back on your TV boxes for Questiontime. Are you all so happy.

I rather suspect the Greens won't be objecting and will be only too happy they aren't getting the publicity they deserve as the 4th biggest party at the moment...

So the Summer is over and normal service is resuming. I hope you have enjoyed the rest and this post brings you a little up to speed. We have Party Conferences to look forward to in the upcoming weeks. Won't that be a joy to behold? And the resumption of shooting ourselves in the face in EU talks.

Oh and don't forget that Trump fellow too. Its all starting to look a bit tasty over there ahead of the November elections. What happens there in the next couple of months might be very important to what happens over here.

Who is excited?!

I am just dancing to the sound of the South African Beats.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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1tisILeClerc · 09/09/2018 08:49

So, from an empire covering nearly half the world 130 years ago, if Boris gets in, the fate of the UK will depend on which way around he puts his pants on.

Peregrina · 09/09/2018 08:57

I couldn't but help think that Art Galleries and Concert organisers should take a leaf out of the German supermarket's example and ban all non UK music and art - just for a short period. So out go Beethoven, Mozart, Satie, Dvorak, and Rembrant, Monet, Michaelangelo, van Gogh etc. a million times. We have some good art and music, but it won't make up for the loss of the European classics.

1tisILeClerc · 09/09/2018 09:21

@Peregrina
The question is whether Leavers are typically people who go to art galleries and orchestral music?
You also have to factor in that so many of these venues are concentrated in or around London. Galleries in 'the North' are being closed due to lack of funds and their art is either taken 'down South' or presumably mothballed somewhere. With the spending on infrastructure and I am presuming support for the Arts, being around 5 times greater for the London area, compared to Greater Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds areas it is just another indication of the contempt that 'London' has for the great Northern cities. (Sorry Birmingham, I haven't left you out deliberately).

1tisILeClerc · 09/09/2018 09:23

@RTB
Morning, Shake a leg, its 'new thread time again!

BigChocFrenzy · 09/09/2018 09:42

Let's all STOP posting if we reach 995, so red can post her link (I've PMed her a reminder)

Meanwhile … Police plan for riots and crimewave if there is no-deal Brexit

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/police-plan-for-riots-and-crimewave-if-there-is-no-deal-brexit-frbbnjjqp

Police chiefs are drawing up contingency plans to deal with widespread civil disorder at the country’s borders and ports < elsewhere too, if there are shortages ? > in the event of a no-deal Brexit,
according to a leaked report.

The bombshell document, prepared by the National Police Co- ordination Centre, warns that the “necessity to call on military assistance is a real possibility” in the weeks around Britain’s departure from the EU.

The report, which is due to be discussed at a meeting of the National Police Chiefs’ Council (NPCC) next week, claims that “widespread leave embargoes” will be required.
Some forces, such as Kent, are expected unilaterally to cancel rest days and leave immediately after March 29.

The document also warns that a no-deal Brexit could lead to a rise in crime

Hazardswan · 09/09/2018 09:51

Can we stop pretending all leavers are one sort of person please? Some of them will like art galleries and different genres.

woman11017 · 09/09/2018 09:54

I couldn't but help think that Art Galleries and Concert organisers
Concert organisers are already being hit.
Peter Gabriel wrote about it.
www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/leisure/showbiz/16389433.peter-gabriel-alarmed-as-international-musicians-denied-visas-for-womad/
Local papers are doing a great job of reporting the grass roots campaigning to stop brexit.red alluded to that ages ago.

Writing to local papers is still very useful. Smile

woman11017 · 09/09/2018 10:06

Some of upcoming local events.
www.europeanmovement.co.uk/events

1tisILeClerc · 09/09/2018 10:10

@Hazard
Sorry, I obviously realise that leavers, and remainers are each 'groupings' with a wide range of views. Putting too many conditionals into a post on a chat forum loses the point.
Leavers themselves have been happy to claim their 'winning' a vote, with a pretty small majority allows them to take the high ground and demand exiting from the EU at any cost. I had orchestral concerts in mind rather than the 'popular' music variety.

woman11017 · 09/09/2018 10:36

it is just another indication of the contempt that 'London' has for the great Northern cities
'contempt'?
Most of 'London' are economic migrants from the north or abroad. Confused

Some of them will like art galleries and different genres
Exactly. Art and music transcend region and class. Is why it's one of the first targets in totalitarian regimes.

More comprehensive list of local groups here.
twitter.com/sazmeister88/status/1037773893463941126

BigChocFrenzy · 09/09/2018 10:49

That significant section of Leavers who rail against the "liberal elite" are a lot less likely to go to art galleries & museums
or to give a damn if they are reduced

whereas some Leavers like Gove have been frequently spotted at very highbrow art events .. in his case with his chum and arch-Remainer Osbourne !

1tisILeClerc · 09/09/2018 11:10

{Most of 'London' are economic migrants from the north }
If national infrastructure spending were more equal there would be no need for those in the North in the very fine cities to have to move South.
Roads, rail, internet access are all badly impacted by the lack of investment. Changing the ratio of 5:1 to even 3:1 would make a MASSIVE difference.

RedToothBrush · 09/09/2018 11:12

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3360250-Westminstenders-Operation-Yellowhammer-1q?watched=1
This is what happens when I drink too much.

Thanks for the nudge BigChoc

OP posts:
woman11017 · 09/09/2018 11:13

Here's a new site with info on what EU has done for each region.
www.myeu.uk/#/

Rosstac · 10/09/2018 14:55

Why has it taken so long for this to be produced, the referendum was over 2 years ago, taken that long to find something decent that the EU does instead of going down that project fear mode, trying to frighten the people to vote remain

prettybird · 10/09/2018 15:09

The information was there - you just chose not to see it Hmm

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/01/mapped-where-in-the-uk-receives-most-eu-funding-and-how-does-thi/
....for example, from the Telegraph, that notoriously pro-EU paper Hmm on 1 June 2016 Confused

Rosstac · 10/09/2018 15:27

prettybird You would not believe how hard I looked for positive views on the EU, but the remain side only carried out putting the frighteners on people, nothing in the debates, sorry I don’t read newspapers

BigChocFrenzy · 10/09/2018 15:57

What "Remain side" were you looking at ?

If it was the official Remain campaign, that was just one side in an internal Tory catfight

This whole Brexit mess is just a Tory catfight that got out of hand
Few of them meant, or expected, that Leave would win.

That's why the Tory govt had no plan and the Tories still cannot agree a plan

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 10/09/2018 16:02

Its not like there wasn't plenty reported on MN either pre ref.

BigChocFrenzy · 10/09/2018 16:02

Unfortunately, most factual informationm on any complicated topic is found mainly in long, detailled articles.

The tabloids, TV headlines and social media only deal in sound bites & click bait, so can't do depth

Please remember that the next time you need to make a important vote;
look in the quality papers for detailled analyses with facts and references to source material

There are also a couple of very informative Brexit blogs, which explain the options we have now:

Dr Richard North (longtime Leave campaigner) www.eureferendum.com
Professor Chris Grey (Remainer) chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com

prettybird · 10/09/2018 16:11

Funny how in Scotland there were plenty of positive messages Hmm

....but maybe don't blame the Remain Campaign (although I think the Remain campaign in Scotland distanced itself from the Conservatives who couldn't bring themselves to promote some of the benefits of the EU becausue they involved things like workers' right Hmm) but more the MSM for failing to report on the positives.

You say you don't read newspapers. Yet there was plenty of stuff about the positives of EU membership on Social Media. And it took me one Google search to find that article: "eu contributions to uk by region" and that was the second article Confused

One of the suggested alternative searches, when I did that search, was "eu funding uk map" . Its responses come up with that Telegraph article as the first result and multiple other examples - again, most of which pre-date the Referendum.

Even just googling "what has the eu ever done for us" comes up with loads of positives - almost all of which pre-date the Referendum.

You can't have tried very hard HmmConfused

1tisILeClerc · 10/09/2018 16:15

That 'MYEU' site is good to look at Linked by woman above.
The map on the Telegraph site is interesting too.

Rosstac · 10/09/2018 16:21

prettybird It must have missed over 17.4 million people then and also the people that could be bothered to vote

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 10/09/2018 16:24

None so blind than those who will not see.

Works to those who apparently research fuck all and those who fall for clearly GF posts me included

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