Have your frienships and family relationships suffered as a result of Brexit?

[Wormzy]

Just that, really. If friends and/ or family members have clearly voted differently to you, has it changed the way you see them or interact with them? Have friendships broken down?

I haven't been able to vote, but the outcome of the vote affects me disproportionately. Family members have voted Leave. There have been arguments, also between friends, some ended in loss of contact.

I wonder how the Brexit vote has affected others on here?

DGRossetti So are you trying to suggest that anyone with a slight history of being ruled by another country, now have the right to cross numerous international borders and just go we’re they like because of things that happen centuries ago ?

I have just travelled through the port at Caen. Yes, there were large numbers of young African men there, certainly no more than 20 years old, I would say. We remarked on it - last time we came that way seven years ago there weren't any. We asked ourselves what has happened to cause this now? That Libya and Syria have been totally destablised since 2011 was what we put it down to. As a country we were so pleased to topple Gadafi to leave, what exactly, in its place? A vacuum filled by people smugglers for one.

Wandering somewhere as a 'holiday' is one thing. Being settled in a house of some sort with an income and rights is different.
If your ambition in life is to live under a blanket in a shop doorway then the world is your oyster until you get moved on.

The EU is attempting to persuade Libya to 'house' some of the migrants and sort out who are economic and who are refugees.

DGRossetti So are you trying to suggest that anyone with a slight history of being ruled by another country, now have the right to cross numerous international borders and just go we’re they like because of things that happen centuries ago ?

No, you just did.

I'm suggesting some education, learning, and understanding might all work together to suggest other solutions and ways of doing things which might be more beneficial to the entire world that we have to share. The fact that the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland hasn't a fucking clue about her own country really sums up the level of ignorance that informs public opinion debate today.

I've (sadly) never been to Ireland. So how can I know more than the person whose responsible for it ?

Let's start at the beginning... "Keep them all out" is about as effective - and as sensible - as "Let them all in". If those are the only two options on the table, the future looks very bleak indeed.

Tbh the EU has actually little to do with that sort of immigration.
Our foreign policy has a heel of a lot to answer for and maybe it should be time for countries such as the U.K. (and the US, and France in some countries too) to actually acknowledge they have caused that immigration by creating the right environment for war for example.

Then there is climate change. In the next 10 or 20 years, how many peole do you think will immigrate because their livelihoods has been destroyed because of OUR attitude to the environment?

As for Brexit, if I was France, once the UK is out of the EU and there are fewer ties, I wpouod be looking at stopping immigrants to go to the U.K. it wouod mean less problems in France (less people in Calais!) and afterall, it IS the Uresponsibility to look after its frontiers. Just like it is now btw, seen that the U.K. is not part of the Shenzhen area and therefore there are still checks at the frontier......

So my question is, what is the UK to stop immigrants coming in?
What is it planning in the long term?

It’s a very complex question and just saying your are closing your frontiers isnt going to work (see the US and Mexico for example). Any other solution requires working WITH other countries, which of course is easier to do when you are kart of a big group such as Europe rather than out of it.

Sorry it should have been
I would look at stopping trying to stop immigrants to go to the U.K.

HermioneGoesBackHome I’m sorry but what do you mean the EU has little to do with that sort of immigration, young men are landing on EU beaches and storming to shore, invasion almost, can the great EU not come up with a plan to stop these economic migrants, Instead of buying there heads in the sand

rosstac there’s no point in explaining thus to you again.

You’ve been told countless times on here why immigration is not an EU issue but you refuse to listen because it doesn’t fit your narrative.

Rosstac to stop economic migrants and refugees fleeing you need to tackle the issues in their home countries, ie war and famine. That will need to be done on a world scale, it’s not down to the EU.

Bearbehind Explain to me why the EU and European countries together are doing nothing to stop what is happening on a daily basis, look how Australia handle it

Buteo They could do a lot more, than leaving it to individual countries like Italy trying to stop ships landing

What I mean is why in earth only the EU’s fault? (Notice too that in this case the EU is ‘them’ and that the U.K. isn’t part of it, part of the decision process re immigration etc....’) so my question to you is, what as the U.K., as a full member of the EU, done to control immigration??
Has it proposed any solution? Has it looked at the big picture? Or just expected other countries to deal with the problem on the VERY convenient basis that the issue has to be solved by the countries where those people arrive to first?
Easy to criticise when you dint have to do anything isn’t it?

Countries like Greece and Italy and France are all doing their best to control said immigration.
It’s not perfect but then is the UK immigration system and control at the frontier better or perfect??

Seeing that it’s impossible to build a wall, Trump style, on the Med sea, I’m not sure what they are supposed to do to stop those immigrants to arrive. Maybe just sink the boats in the Med?

In the mean time, the U.K. has nicely subcontracted the hard work on controlling the frontier at Calais and is saying its not their fault or responsibility....

Also words such as ‘storming to shore’ or ‘invasion’ doesn’t help. AT. ALL.

"They could do a lot more, than leaving it to individual countries like Italy trying to stop ships landing"

But that would be involving its self in decisions that are sovereign.

Come on leavers make up your minds, either you want the EU to be involved or not? You can't have it both ways.

Rosstac in your narrative, whatbis the U.K. doing about it then? I mean it’s still part of the EU so as a full member of the EU it shouod an shouod have taken a big part in finding a solution.

The EU isn’t them vs us the U.K. the U.K. IS/WAS the EU too. Which means that any measure taken by the EU that’s isnt good enough also means that the U.K. hasn’t been good enough.

THEY could do a lot more than keav7nbg to individual countries.

Now can you tell me who is THEY?

Because it’s not the EU. The EU doesn’t have a police force, an army or anything else at its disposal to try and stop boats from lading in Italy or Greece.
It’s also not a person.

So is THEY? Whinare those people/groups that should have done something???

Thats the problem for leavers, they always paint it as the EU vs the UK.

It was never like that, but simple narratives are easier to spin.

Young fit lads who want to come to the U.K.?

Well someone's got to pick the fruit and look after the elderly. We've said we don't want Europeans to do it so of course it'll be non-Europeans.

It's almost as if they heard Chris Grayling on QT say "We're not going to check the lorries."

If we've painted ourselves into such a corner that we're choosing to fling open our borders in order to continue to function as a nation then we can hardly expect the EU to save us from everyone who'll come running. The same as it wasn't down to the EU to manage our borders for us if we weren't controlling them as well as we could before the referendum.

And yes, I can't imagine that open borders were what most Leave voters were intending to happen but that's Brexit's special unicorn magic isn't it? Whatever you voted Leave for - you're probably going to get the exact opposite.

topcat1980 Individual countries can only do a limited amount, it needs a joint effort by a group of nations, Oh yes the EU

So if it’s not up to the EU to pull together a joint effort in Europe, who’s responsibility is it ?

"It needs a joint effort by a group of nations, Oh yes the EU"#

Yet which member of the EU has consistently rejected policies which would be part of that joint effort?

Answers on a postcard folks.

Why should the EU do anything other than defend its members in this.

That seems to be a problem from Brexiteers.

The EU should give the UK what it wants, a better deal than members because that's what the UK wants. In fact it is what leavers were promised, and they wouldn't listen when they were told it wouldn't happen.

@bellinsurge, congrats, you've almost got it in one :-), the EU should be defending its borders.

"The EU should be defending its borders."

Sadly, defense is a cooperation decision amongst members and border defense is a sovereign issue.