Have your frienships and family relationships suffered as a result of Brexit?

[Wormzy]

Just that, really. If friends and/ or family members have clearly voted differently to you, has it changed the way you see them or interact with them? Have friendships broken down?

I haven't been able to vote, but the outcome of the vote affects me disproportionately. Family members have voted Leave. There have been arguments, also between friends, some ended in loss of contact.

I wonder how the Brexit vote has affected others on here?

I blame 'Project Fear'. They went overboard and wound people up. It's like telling smokers to give up smoking. They do the opposite even though it's bad for them!

PoisonSmurf - Project Fear was only named so by right-wing nutters. In your example, people doing stupid things and continuing to do them to spite the other side is just a "cut-your- nose -to -spite -your -face" scenario. Not grown up or responsible.

I am deeply disappointed with a friend I'd known for 40 years who is an American living in the U.K. and in a relationship with another non-EU guy and she's all for Brexit. Mind boggles. I've only seen her a couple of times since and with kids around etc to avoid any meaningful talk. I don't think our friendship will ever recover properly. Though the signs had been there all along, what with her also being a Republican and pro-guns and all that shit.

Don't mention consequences 'cos you're only going to do it anyway, eh? Sounds like a very grown-up approach.

Project fear was just a way of shutting down any criticism or possible negatives highlighted.

Rather like fake news, its a way to challenge factual arguments for people who can't argue with their own facts.

Smokers don't give up smoking because they are addicted to nicotine. They know it is bad for them. They don't smoke because someone told them not to !

Project fear, interesting choice of words , thought up I believe by Vote Leave ( I may be wrong ) whose whole campaign was focussed on playing on peoples fears.

There was no 'project fear' , the idea was made up to allow people to dismiss anyone and anything which didn't fit with the message that Brexit was a marvellous idea. The whole vote leave campaign ran on the premise that it was an unwinnable argument, so no facts or plans must ever be discussed by the main protagonists, every shred of negative evidence was therefore dismissed as project fear. It really was a brilliant campaign, morally bankrupt , but brilliant none the less !

I'm still at the "smile but think 'fuck 'em, I hope they starve" stage.

they said they were from Sudan.

Africa ?!?!?! Googles "Nearest EU border to Sudan", switches to "maps".

There isn't a direct border. By my reckoning they'd have to either go through Egypt and Libya, or along the Red Sea, and then across the Mediterranean. Even then, earliest landfall would be Sicily.

So how the hell do they then cross half of Europe to end up trying to jump on UK bound lorries ?

I voted remain. I firmly believe that such problems should be addressed by a union of the countries affected and involved. But if I wanted an easy life, it's not difficult to see how the idea of "Leave" becomes attractive with unexplained and (seemingly) unaddressed issues like this.

I am going to hazard a guess that there was some boat travel and an awful lot of walking involved before the reaching the dizzy heights of peering across the channel. The people talking to Sky news also said they aged in range from 14-17.

DGRossetti It’s nice to see you finally seeing things people have been talking about for years, better watch out, you will be getting called a racist or bigot. Why are the other EU states doing nothing about it ?

frumpety 14-17 come on, we all know that’s not true, there are reasons that they say they are that age

How will leaving the EU solve the problem of refugees wanting to come to the UK ( we take far fewer than our EU counterparts btw)?

DGRossetti It’s nice to see you finally seeing things people have been talking about for years, better watch out, you will be getting called a racist or bigot. Why are the other EU states doing nothing about it ?

I'm not "finally" seeing it. I've always seen it.

However, I still think if it's the problem people are making it out to be, it needs to be addressed at a much higher level than the UK becoming a much smaller country with a much lessened sphere of influence.

Also, the UK isn't in any way "special" in being target for migrants. Sicily gets more that it's fair share, as does Italy.

Once the UK is out of the EU, there will be no incentive for any EU country to prevent migrants travelling on to the UK. It's inhuman to use human lives for political gain. But since it's UK government policy, there's no moral high ground when others do it.

As with the increased foreign tourism to the South West making life harder for locals, people should really be aware of unintended consequences.

The BBC website, certainly a while ago but probably in archives, showed the immigration routes from all over Africa. The young lads at Caen (in the news piece) are generally well dressed, often having mobile phones and if it weren't for the large numbers and that they are 'milling about' in groups between ship departures are quite 'normal'. I would say that they are older than 14-17 but probably not much above 20.
Shortly before each ferry loading a large contingent of Gendarmes arrive to monitor 'progress'. Any that make it as far as 'check in' are taken away and their travel plans get revised, for that day at least.
They won't stay in France as they can't get into the French 'system'.

DGRossetti There doesn’t seem much incentive for the EU countries to stop it while we are in the EU

topcat1980 I didn’t say it would, but the EU not very good at stopping it either

"There doesn’t seem much incentive for the EU countries to stop it while we are in the EU"

Except for those on the frontline, France and Germany all accepting far more refugees annually, for more than a decade, than the UK.

DGRossetti There doesn’t seem much incentive for the EU countries to stop it while we are in the EU

So there's logic in leaving an organisation where we do have influence, to a position where we have fuck all influence ?

topcat1980 I think you will find that they are larger countries than us.
Were their people ask if they were happy with that or just forced on them, as we have seen lately, they don’t seem to happy

DGRossetti We don’t seem to have much influence as surely, this still wouldn’t be a ongoing problem,

Were their people happy?

No, but then its a massive humanitarian crisis.

I don't think Greece or Italy are larger than us btw.

"We don’t seem to have much influence as surely, this still wouldn’t be a ongoing problem,"

You think the EU could stop the refugee crisis?

There's also a savage irony in the fact that because English has become the worlds language, the most attractive country in Europe for anyone outside Europe is going to be an English speaking one. It's a direct result of Britain's colonial adventures (that Brexiteers love to harp back to). In fact I'm sure some might regard it as "karma" ? After all, we pillaged countless other countries for whatever we could turn into gold, or a TV miniseries and forced the inhabitants to learn English. That's after we imposed borders where there had been none to simply the task of looting the wealth with the minimum of resistance. Borders which - decades if not centuries later - have become the source of a lot of the conflict these people are now seeing.

The fact that for all the lolly Britain helped itself to, there seems to be little evidence for in the lifestyles of those using foodbanks and sleeping rough, is merely a testament to how the ruling classes stuffed their boots while keeping us all down.

topcat1980 Yes, in fact they’ve made it worse or should I say AM did off her own back without a vote in her own country or the EU

DGRossetti I’m sorry for my previous country people, but I wasn’t around then and can only try to deal with present day issues

DGRossetti I’m sorry for my previous country people, but I wasn’t around then and can only try to deal with present day issues

Which is exactly what the migrants are doing too ... their present day issue being that they're living in a country that can trace it's present woes back to their colonial past. Moreover a colonial past that some people in Britain celebrate and parade as some sort of badge of honour.

What will be is a result of what came before. Just because you don't know what came before - whether by conscious ignorance, or simple accident - doesn't change that fact.

We're moving from an age of empires where military might could decide outcomes to an age of blocs, where economic might will decide the outcome. At a time when the EU is eclipsing the US (which I was reading canny US commentators predicting in 1990, by the way) as the dominant non-Asian trading bloc, it seems a tad counterintuitive that the UK is going to thrive outside it.

The only way to avoid being in a bloc is sheer geography - e.g. Switzerland. But even the Swiss have been forced to make deals with the EU on the EUs terms. Doesn't augur well for Brexit Britain.