Remainders always start anti Brexit threads.

[Ihatemycar]

I've been reading Brexit threads and it's always the same people talking about how unhappy they are about Brexit.
I guess Brexit leave voters have no time to waste on forums.

The reason I said nobody knows what is going to happen, is because we are still negotiating. There could be a good deal to be had. Also our governments have been hiding behind the EU blaming them for things and now we see our government for what they are. Incompetent

This is what I don't understand and this is what causes the red mist. Why did you vote for something when you don't know what that something is? Especially when every single financial institute came on record to say the mysterious something you were intending to vote for was a bad thing, it would buckle the country and make everything worse. When industry like Nissan were begging people to vote remain because they too said the mysterious something was a bad thing why did you vote for it anyway? You must have had some idea of what you wanted to happen if you won.

Why? I don't understand? For what possible gain? What do you see happening that makes all of this worth it?

And if the answer is sovereignty, or make Britain great again or whatever sound bite please, at least explain what you think that means.

@AnnabelC

Of course I can't promise some magical transformation through staying in the EU. What I can say is that things won't get a lot worse as it's shaping up with Brexit.

The world is changing rapidly, the western countries are in relative decline. We have older populations, and can not rely on cheap labour to grow our economies. For example, in a few decades, the US will be the 4th largest economy behind China, India and Indonesia.

We need to cooperate with similar countries like those in the EU to ensure fair treatment with the new super powers.

Look at how the US treats us, Stating how Brexit is a "God given opportunity to steal the UKs trade"

What then do you see as the main benefits of Brexit? Please be specific. Answers like control our borders, laws and money don't cut it.

Especially as it becomes clear now that if we Brexit, our borders will be fully open, we will be at the mercy of all EU laws if we still wish to trade in the EU, PLUS all the additional red tape our own Government are introducing : 9000 additional Brexit Civil Servants announced yesterday on top of the 7000 already in existence, PLUS our currency is likely to devalue to equal the Euro, so we won't be 'in control'. Immigration from outside the EU is up and nothing to do with the EU.

So, please explain how our children will benefit from Brexit?

Not everyone will benefit from brexit - that’s life. Tell me one country in the world where everyone is happy?

The day you start accepting that brexit might not benefit you personally the better you’ll be. Every political decision has winners & losers.
Some people really suffered with us being in the EU. Did you care about them?
And you’re all so hypocritical - you care so much about migrants risking their lives to get here, you understand them, you worry about them, do you think they’ll give a flying fuck whether we’re in the EU or not? They’ll just be glad to be here getting free health care.
Maybe you should be more like them. You know. Grateful you’re even here.

Okay, so who will benefit from Brexit? And how?

Alison you can see any benefits at all? Then it's no point of me explaining anything as you are going to think it's leave rhetoric.
I see so many advantages but you won't believe me.
We do have a child and we want him to see beyond Europe because we have lived in 14 different countries over the years in and outside Europe.

@surferjet

Who did not benefit from being part of the EU? You can't just make stuff up and expect people to have any respect for you.

Some people really suffered with us being in the EU

I know you think that sounds very impressive surfer but it's just a slogan.

Who 'really suffered' and why?

Helmet we could say that the same that you lot are fucking stupid as a whole but that's ridiculous. I believe that you are the only one...

Pressed enter too soon!

why was the suffering a direct result of being in the EU?

Everything I've ever heard people complain about is due to government decisions, nothing to do with the EU.

Some people really suffered with us being in the EU.

I think that has got to be the most stupid statement I have ever read on MN. Who?

Looking back at say 2015 when the economy had started to claw it's way back from the 2008 economic crash will be seen as the halcyon days. Maybe 2007 was a 'better' time. What is already happening is way is more austerity, even if A50 is cancelled as the mess that has been made has to be paid for, like the signs you see in shops saying breakages must be paid for. The wage bill for the new civil servants will be a minimum of £300 Million for starters, let alone all the infrastructure.
Building massive lorry park.customs areas for all the ports.
The EU will support the necessary expansion of customs and associated extra costs as part of 27 countries, UK 'no mates' will have to fund it itself.
Unless EU based manufacturers (BMW for example) can produce cars in the UK economically, they will leave as soon as practicable, may be 2-5 years time but without JIT freedom to manufacture, they will go. The UK government 'sold the family silver' years ago.

Bellini that's the spirit. Please go to Ireland you can help them pay what they owe the UK.
I hear it's the land of milk and honey. That's why most of them end up here. They hate so much wealth and happiness in Ireland 🇮🇪

What? you think I come on this board to earn respect? who are you, The Mafia?

I don’t care whether you believe me or not, but the facts are there, if everyone was happy being in the EU 17 million people wouldn’t have voted to leave.

I think most of them ended up here because of the civil war. I expect, once we crash out with no deal and have to put a hard border between Ireland and Northern Ireland and the tension starts ramping up again, more of them will want to be here.

But as long we have sovereignty and can make Britain great again, I guess civil war is worth it.

Frequency is that what you think it's going to happen?
Hammond got to you I guess...

@surferjet

But you are not quoting facts, you are quoting made up stuff.

17 million people voted for things like

£350 million for the NHS a week
New wonderful trade deals all over the place
A Brexit Dividend
A booming Economy
To take back control

All were manifestly lies. Now people can see that polls show a clear and growing majority want to remain in the EU and keep the benefits of being in the EU.

I see so many advantages but you won't believe me

Tell me, i was a leaver initially, so it shouldn't be too hard to convince me i was wrong to change my mind.

..and i dont want "we can do trade deals with x y or z" or "we can make our own laws" either.

@Ihatemycar

What exactly do the Irish owe the UK?

You do know that Ireland is considerably richer than the UK now?

@1tisILeClerc

Keep in mind that under WTO rules, cars exported to the EU (and everywhere else) will have a 10% tariff added to them...

Hammond is the spokesperson, an office full of minions with brains have worked out that the UK will be a LOT worse off unless TM or anyone manages to get even a half decent deal together.
TM's 'letter' with 12 'demands' is complete crap and she will not manage to get much if any 'wriggle' from the EU.
If you are a member of a football club, with it's rules and you then rock up and say you want to play tennis instead, why should the FOOTBALL club change it's rules to suit you alone? At one level it really is that simple, it seems that too many 'leavers' can't even get this part.
The CU and SM HAVE to stay in economic terms. FOM I can see some alterations as within the rest of Europe 'total' FOM is a bit of a problem although it would have been less of an issue in the UK IF the various governments of the UK had bothered to implement measures that the rest of the EU already use.
Britain WAS pretty great, but on a par with several other European countries. Too many in the UK have a 'golden age of empire' aspiration, back to how it was 120 years ago, an empire brought about by trade (good) killing and oppression (bad) which will now bite the UK on the backside.

I have think the issue for many people is democracy. Personally I think a double tier system of law making is futile and I resent paying my taxes to a government that can then get over ruled by a totally unelected group of people (whose wages I also pay) in Europe.

Local issues that really matter to people are of no importance to a unelected official in Brussels who can make rules and laws which affect businesses and people they do not represent. And when they screw up there is nothing we can do about because we didn't elect them in, therefore cannot unelect them out. Its about basic democracy.

If we really want the EU to work there to be a total conformity and dissolution of national identity, borders, laws, customs, values, security, military and currency. It's never going to work over such a vast difference in countries not just in regards to ecomonic output but also values of the populace. The EU is creaking at the seams and country after country are voting in euro skeptic political parties. Why would this be happening if it was working so well? It's a shame because its a great idea in theory it just isn't working in practice.

As for trade and visas, most countries have strict entry requirements and still have enough migration to support its economy and we don't go around screaming that new Zealand and Canada are a load of racists and nationalists?

I don’t care whether you believe me or not, but the facts are there, if everyone was happy being in the EU 17 million people wouldn’t have voted to leave.

As ever ' I can't back up my comments so I'll revert to 'we won you lost''

@SoloD
I should have said CONTINUE to make cars 'economically viably'.
There COULD I suppose be a special 'sweetener' allowed specifically to cover the increased of costs for a limited time only and specific to individual circumstances IF AGREED by the rest of the EU simply to prevent immediate collapse and departure. I would see this as being fixed at the end of the 'product cycle' for the models being made now.
Yes WTO rules are terrible and without a lot of negotiation many manufacturers will take a big 'hit'.

But Ihatemycar

You are the one who says Brexitteers are too busy to go on internet forums and yet here you are repeatedly.

You are the one who insisted repeatedly that Britain received no help after WW2 - wrong wrong wrong.

You are the one who says Brexit is brilliant but then remainers need to get together and work out how to do it.

You are the one who apparently sees so many benefits in Brexit but oop you are too scared to write them down.

Don't you see that makes you sound utterly stupid?