Remainders always start anti Brexit threads.

[Ihatemycar]

I've been reading Brexit threads and it's always the same people talking about how unhappy they are about Brexit.
I guess Brexit leave voters have no time to waste on forums.

@Thecrabbypatty

Do you know what laws the EU makes and which the UK parliament makes? Can you quote me any laws which the EU have made which you think are wrong?

The EU makes laws on areas where there is a benefit to having an international approach. For business, there is a huge advantage of having a single set of consumer protection and product safety laws. Rather than having to comply 28 times we only need to comply once. Huge saving. I know as I have to do different product testing and different documentation for export to the US.

Other areas include Human Rights, or Enviromental standards, If Germans chose to pour toxic gloop into the Rhine, some of it will end up on the North East coast of the UK, so we have a clear benefit from that.

The vast majority of civil and all criminal law is under the control of the UK, as is all our taxation and almost all of our spending.

@Thecrabby
You obviously missed the point that we DO elect MEPs to sit in Brussels to act for the UK. There is a system of Veto and opt outs available but unlike Mr Farage you do need to actually attend meetings not swan off down to the pub.
Try learning about how the EU actually operates, it is more democratic than the UK. It is unfortunately a bit 'slow' and cumbersome but then it is dealing with 27 countries some with distinct problems and issues.
New Zealand has just banned 'foreigners' from buying property in New Zealand.
Many countries are seeing an increase in 'Far Right' activity. Too much of it is of a 'thuggish' behavior and the wish to destroy rather than live harmoniously and benefit others.
Had the million or more Expats had the vote then the referendum result could well have been 17 million each way as those that reside in Europe can see many benefits of being in a large family.

Crabby. You have put into words what I think but over the 40 years . So that everyone get their share of trade, obviously Germany did better. we have become so entwined. Fishing and associated businesses have gone. Farmers have been restricted. Think butter mountains. We can’t make whole planes we get the wings. Etc etc. We have to put infrastructure control out to Europe so they control and do things we could do.

How can we reverse all this ?

That is exactly the point. It works to some on a large scale but ignores people at the end of the chain. The obvious one to quote is the fishing quotas. This has a huge impact on coastal communities on a day to day level and has for years driving these parts of the UK into poverty in the name of "fairness". And the huge issue is that the system could technically work if everyone played by the rules but some countries in the EU simply do not. Take for example infrastructure tendering, why is it that France always manages to get the best price from... Wow... France!! Are you telling me that the powerful French unions do not have something to do with making sure French contracts get tendered to French companies? The UK plays cricket with the rules, even to the detriment of our own workers and industries, but what's the point if no one else does? And who is going to stop those that don't?

I’m out of here, I can only take this board in very small doses these days.
Nothing changes. Which is kinda nice in a way, it’s safe & reassuring because I know exactly what to expect. But once a month is enough. I like excitement & mystery
Enjoy your long weekend

@AnnabelC

Fishing - Some British Fishermen sold their quotas to foreign companies. Who scrapped the local boats and used their own. How was this the fault of the EU?

Farming - I agree CAP was bad policy, but would the UK have done better or plans to do better now? According to the government they will continue the same EU policy.

Wings? The cost of R&D very few countries can afford the cost of developing new aircraft. Brexit is suddenly not going to resurrect our aircraft industry. In all likelihood what will happen is that we loose the 100,000 jobs involved in the wing production.

The EU does not involve with infrastructure apart from paying for it in certain regions.

It is always good to check the actual facts.

@Thecrabbypatty

That point about French companies getting contracts for French infrastructure is very interesting. Can you quote some sources for that?

I suspect that building a road, that a French company who had a local workforce and equipment may be at an advantage to a British company who had to bring them all the way from the UK.

Only in Brexitannia is the opportunity to manufacture high-tech wings for the largest advanced passenger aircraft in the world, not an amazing international collaborative source of pride, but some sort of bitter poisonous insult against the purity of English aeronautics

Carillion anyone?

The other aspect is we have the worlds second biggest Aeroengine manufacturer, we make dozens of highly specialized parts for a huge range of aircraft. All of which is being put at risk by Brexit given we won't have a regulator who can take over from EASA to certify the parts.

Just catching up. Elements raised a wry 'laugh out loud' chuckle.

It underlines the 'it's all the EU's fault' narrative, no matter how much factual evidence is presented to Leave/Brexiteer supporters.

SoloD since you asked, but as remainers like to remind everyone "do your own research".

www.economist.com/europe/2016/11/19/rigging-the-bids

On another note I think leaving Europe will focus the mind of UK politicians. There will be nothing to hide behind when things go wrong and more accountability. It's no good to blame the EU, we need to take responsibility for our failures AND successes. I really don't see the issue, some extremely admirable countries prosper independently and within small trading unions with similar ideals.

Also if the EU does push ahead with its aim to create a monolithic singular country of Europe I think it will be a shame to lose the individual country characteristics that make Europe diverse and interesting. But that will be what it takes to keep it together. At this point I think European countries will reject it completely but it is the only way it will survive in the long term.

I disagree Patty. I think the UK will flounder and the EU member states will prosper. That, in essence, was the basis of the decision in the UK referendum. I'll accept I was wrong in 5 years time, if that proves to be the case. When will you/leavers/brexiteers accept you were wrong?

Probably the same time frame as you I would imagine, if that was the case.

Take James Dyson, of the vacuum cleaner. Started in the UK but when sales really took off he did the 'patriotic' thing and shifted production to the far East or is it India? OK R&D is still in the UK.
Why? because labour was cheaper there and fewer 'rules'. Maybe when the UK leaves and the government scrap some of the workers protection, they may come back at £5 an hour. All the fashion clothing, made in factories abroad because it is cheaper.
JLR, building 'iconic' British cars, owned by TATA of India who are taking production of new vehicles to Eastern Europe.
Companies that are labour intensive move to wherever the workers can be paid less, unless it is coal or metal ore extraction which obviously has to be where the minerals are.
Bid rigging does happen obviously, do you think that the UK doesn't do it too? Look at the defense industry, or at least you can't easily because it is deliberately secretive.
The UK and elsewhere is littered with examples of company owners 'selling out' on the local population when they can see bigger profits from elsewhere.
The Tory party in particular is all about profit and 'selling out' partly so that when things go wrong they can blame someone else. The NHS is gradually being privatised, the Gov (or it's friends) can take out profits but when anything goes wrong there will be someone else to blame.

@Thecrabbypatty

Thanks, always nice to see a source.

Correct me if I am wrong but this is about illegal corruption. How exactly is that to do with the EU?

There is no way the various nationalities within the EU will ever 'merge'.
The French hardly follow their own government and will definitely not take 'orders' from Brussels or Germany unless it happens to suit them.
Although there are problems ahead, there is the will across Europe to cooperate with each other on important matters which makes them strong.

1tisILeClerc you are moving away from the topic entirely. Torys and Labour have brexit supporters on both sides. Particularly the champion of workers rights, the cheeky donkey jacket wearing, all fur coat and no draws Mr Corbyn. Even he cannot bring himself to condemn Brexit because his whole career has had a thread of anti European sentiment throughout. And since one of his only redeeming features us that he stands by his principles he can't be seen to back track. Even Saint Jeremy thinks the EU is a crock, and even he cannot convince his supporters!

The EU has a commitment to open tender. With eachother. It's corruption yes but its worse because its an all or nothing. If everyone were doing it would be fair, if no one was doing it, it would be fair. But some are and some arnt and Europe is kidding itself if they think this rule is being followed. And this blatant ignoring of essential rules that flags up the issue that ultimately it has no teeth and can't do anything to stop it. So has to keep grinding on knowing it's rules are a total farce.

I guess we are not moving forward on this. We are still hopelessly divided and not able to resolve how we can achieve Brexit.
Westminster is in the same deadlock.
I can see why we are in a mess because both sides think the other side is wrong.
The difference is one side has a majority the other side doesn't.
We are all tired of it. The uncertainty, the waiting, the fear and the unknown.
I'm tired I just wish we had a clear picture. You can't blame people for wanting to go or stay it was a choice a very difficult one at that.

Thecrabbypatty

You are being completely disingenuous. Most UK construction projects went to UK companies look at Carillion, the biggest supplier to the UK government.

Where we can practically tender for work UK companies do well. Look at Surrey Satellite and the Galileo project.

@Ihatemycar

Yes one side has a majority now which is Remain, so let's all stop this madness which is damaging our country.

OK it might be off topic but if you think the failings of the EU with it's commitment to open tender are 'corrupt' just wait until you see the deals Mr Fox is going to come up with when he tries negotiating with the USA, China and Russia. Happy leaving day!

SoloD Leave has majority by a democratic vote. 1.3 million more.
No I see why we are where we are. Denying the result won't change that we are leaving the EU.