Westminstenders: Summer Season

[RedToothBrush]

No its not the weather making your brain rot and stop thinking.

Thats just Brexit.

He is one reason why I don't expect the EU would agree to an A50 extension of more than 1 month, even if the UK gov asked:

did you know that if UK MEPs are elected again, a legal quirk probably means that they would remain in the European Parliament for the full 5 year term, even if the UK Brexited in July

I just completed the survey. I didn't think the question about whether or not we felt misled by the campaigns offered the correct answer as an option. it was pretty much yes or no - and then a choice of campaigns to feel misled by. I ticked the one that said I didn't feel misled by either - and then followed it in the 'any other comments' with this.

I believe the Leave campaign WAS misleading (lying) but I knew that at the time. My answer to the previous question does not indicate that I think the leave campaign was fair or truthful - just that I was not stupid enough to fall for the lies. It definitely was a misleading (outright dishonest) campaign - it is being investigated and those culpable should be facing criminal prosecution and hefty sentences.

The question should be do you now feel that the campaigns were dishonest? Not whether we personally felt misled by them - which is a very different question.

Why oh why is farage coming back
The opaquely funded, muscularly backed, Johnson, Bannon, Leave etc are gearing up for the as yet unannounced, referendum. They are fund raising and organising on SM. Johnson's violence inspiring insults to Moslem women were the hors d'oevre, to this episode.

We are having to counter an externally funded digital and physical army with a leaderless and fundless amalgum of disparate groups, street stalls and letters to compromised legislators, with two totalitarian main parties as red said upthread.

Who trusts this regime to run a fair referendum, including the 5 m British/EU citizens, after what they did nearly 3 years ago?

People are calling for the UN to oversee it.

Babooshka if your DF was born in the 1920s, his mother should appear on the 1911 census at the very least - either the irish or british. Its not uncommon for middle names to be omitted on birth registrations but are on census or vice versa. It can be difficult but it is sometimes possible to sometimes get lucky and find a very elusive clue somewhere else.

Ive been doing family history for a good few years now, and have experience cracking brick walls. DH's grandfather is an interesting case. Family names were a clue, but I found a bizarre bit of information about his mother and father on two tiny details on a WWI record - which proved something not on the birth certificate. And ive had some interesting bigamists....

If you are looking for a clue where to look next, my tip would be looking at the address given for his birth as the next best place to start.

If you want any help feel free to give me a shout via pm. Im more than happy to have a look and see if I can come up with something. Might get no where but I do enjoy the challenge.

Red Thank you so much! I’m immensely grateful.

I couldn’t see her on the census but I must admit I’m not sure I know what I’m doing I couldn’t decipher the registrar’s handwriting for her address either.

We’re packing up the house for moving at the moment. Will take you up on your kind offer and PM you this evening.

Thanks again

From the BBC once again prioritising a failed politician and radio presenter ( as I suppose am I in this post).

Caroline Lucas got elected but does not receive equivalent press time.

I honestly believe there's no hope.

" Mr Farage said "scores of people" had stopped him in the street to ask when he was "coming back".

He added: "Well now you have your answer: I'm back."

The 54-year-old said a "battlebus" had already been hired.

He later told the BBC that Mrs May's proposal was "a complete betrayal of what people voted for". "

It mystifies me why he feels a need to battle when he won? Just to ensure a no deal and maximise the collapse.

Does anyone else have a mental picture of Jack Nicolson in "The Shining" leering "I'm baaack!" when hearing about Farage saying he's back?

Or is it just me?

That needs to be a meme or something!

Am I missing something? What exactly does 7 times failed to be elected to parliament, washed up radio presenter Nigel Farage think he's going to achieve?

He has a battle bus I think the country has had enough of buses as campaign strategy Nige and is planning to take to the road to campaign against TM's chequers plan. But... a) TM's chequers plan is a dead duck anyway and b) he can badmouth it to the people all he wants - the people no longer have a say, the deal is down to the govt to sort - doesn't matter what we all think (this is 'the people have spoken - no more discussion' coming back to bite them in the bum.)

So why is he doing this?

He can't be agitating for some kind of ... second referendum can he? Surely not. The people have spoken. They told the govt to vote leave - and in the absence of anything like a plan, we can only assume that that vote was displaying the utmost confidence in the govt to do exactly the right thing for the 17 million. They knew what they were voting for - they tell us so all the time. They were voting for TM to do whatever she saw fit.

Surely these paragons of democracy, these people who knew exactly what they were voting for - cannot be claiming that the will of the people - and the way the govt choose to interpret that - are not one and the same? Surely they're not saying that - despite no plan being on offer at the time - they absolutely knew 100% that they were not voting for the chequers plan? Because that would suggest they didn't know what they were voting for ... and that just cannot be. Even a suggestion of such is treason.

Surely - they don't think they have the right to another say about the future and direction of brexit? Not after all the names they have called remainers who have suggested the same thing? They won - they need to get over it.

www.google.co.uk/search?q=adolf+farage&tbm=isch&hl=en-gb&client=safari&ved=2ahUKEwiV_6TaqPfcAhUHzoUKHQ6aCOAQtI8BKAF6BAgBECg#imgrc=qegDisxDWuY9xM:

No words necessary

He can't be agitating for some kind of ... second referendum can he
Kind of like 1934 German referendum, which consolidated Hitler's power is what they've got in mind now. It wasn't a very nice campaign.

£1,000,000 for peoples vote

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45235655

" Mr Farage said "scores of people" had stopped him in the street to ask when he was "coming back".

I think he may have misunderstood.
What they were actually asking is where the hell is he and why isn't he back here dealing with the mess he's created.

£1m for a people's vote.

Some good news. What a hero. Julian Dunkerton...
" ..will be paying for one of the most detailed polling exercises ever undertaken by a campaign so that more and more people have the confidence to demand the democratic right for their voice to be heard."
The People's Vote campaign is hoping to get enough MPs, including the Labour leadership, to back a referendum on the deal ( if any) due to be put to a vote in Parliament in October.

Any hope of Labour backing it?

Any hope of Labour backing it?

Lonelyplanetmum Utterly shameful if they don’t but Corbyn will have to muster up a good deal more courage and integrity than he’s shown to date.

From the Guardian article about Julian Dunkerton:

The most recent polling suggests that 45% of voters want the electorate to have a say on the final Brexit deal, with 34% opposed.

Trying to get my head round those percentages. You surely have to assume that the 34% would vote leave/no Deal in vote on a final deal. I can see no reason for any Remainer to say we shouldn’t have a vote.

I wonder how many of the 45% might also be Leavers who happen to think we should vote on the deal but may still vote leave? I hope not many.

Presumably most of the 21% who don’t have an opinion wouldn’t bother voting?

Where does that leave us, do you think?

Some senior ministers fear that there is no Commons majority for Theresa May’s proposed Brexit deal

Why are they still wasting time on this when the EU has already said it’s not acceptable?

[Hard Brexiters] will kill all but ‘no deal’. The Commons won’t vote for that – ministers won’t – so it will all collapse. It could be truly dreadful

Help me someone. What does this mean? If Brexiters kill all but ‘no deal’ and the Commons won’t vote for ‘no deal’ and it all collapses then surely the result of that is ‘no deal’? So we’re backed into a comer where’s there’s no avoiding no deal? Please, someone tell me I’m wrong.

We are on the road to misery,” said one senior minister.

No shit, Sherlock.

Sorry ‘where there’s no avoiding’. Not sure where I was going with that random apostrophe...

So if we do end up with 'No deal', we crash out. Then what do we do about supplies of medicines, food, aviation, road haulage to the continent etc., etc., etc.? Are the 'No deal' zealots so money mad and intent on avoiding EU tax legislation that they would wreck the country? They all have the option of being wealthy enough to buy their way into a tax haven, so why inflict misery on the rest of us?

muster up a good deal more courage and integrity than he’s shown to date.

That's what gets me- Corbyn is supposed to be a man of principle who stands up for what he believes in.

If (as it appears) he passionately believes in stepping away from the existing trading bloc then he should be happy to openly defend his views at another vote. Even if that means sharing a platform with his political antitheses like Grease Smug.

The same applies to the Tory cabal faction too. If they believe any final plan or no deal is the most ideal solution then why avoid stepping up ? If you believe in something (and in your own oration skills) you should be confident of defending your view.

The most recent polling suggests that 45% of voters want the electorate to have a say on the final Brexit deal, with 34% opposed.

I don't think we can assume that the whole 34% would vote no Deal in any vote. Many people are just bored with it all, don't grasp the enormity of the impact, don't want to hear any more about it. They are In the " not another one" Brenda from Bristol camp.

Some Remainers are also scared of the result of another vote. I know I am.

Are the 'No deal' zealots so money mad and intent on avoiding EU tax legislation that they would wreck the country?

Yes.

I think because Johnson and Rees Mogg have the air of old money there is a naive belief that they may benignly look after the serfs. However that is not the situation we are in.

The zealots views today are more like the trends in the US which are borne of vast amounts of 'new' money, rather than our class ridden perception that those with old money may be charitable.

This whole clusterfuck has revealed the right wing for what they are. The current cabal's beliefs are closer to the increased domination of dark money in the US. It is terrifying.

Behind the politics there's an extreme survival of the fittest philosophy.

The influences and beliefs are like the way people the Koch brothers have influenced politics in the US. The ideology is based on corporate liberty and minimised government interference.

So ultimately profit is King. The knock on effect dismisses free public education, free healthcare and protections for the rights and lives of workers.

Companies can make more money without interference from having to follow environmental and social policy measures.

Tax should be minuscule as it is not the role of the government to educate children or to provide health care.

If you haven't read Dark money by Jane Mayer I really recommend it. Or just google the Koch brothers influence on US politics. Those trends are closest to the no deal zealots.

Some Remainers are also scared of the result of another vote. I know I am.

I'm very ambivalent about the idea of a new referendum. Firstly, making complex decisions by referendum is a truly terrible idea. And it's definitely not a better idea now than it was in 2015.

Secondly, what are we voting for? A three way remain/deal/no deal vote? Deal versus no deal? No deal versus remain?

Thirdly, be careful what you wish for. A second referendum result that went the wrong way would completely tie parliament's hands. Not only is that not democratic, it also creates existential an threat to the UK.

I'm glad that the people's vote issue is getting plenty of airtime, but my hope is that it succeeds in demonstrating the extent to which no Brexit deal is not the will of the people, without actually having a vote.

Plus, there is no way we have another referendum without extending A50.

Some Remainers are also scared of the result of another vote. I know I am
1934 Germany, and more recently, the peculiar Turkish election.
Brexists haven't been paid good money to 'lose' at this point.

You are so right woman11017. If nothing else, the German pre-War experience of Referendums ought to have taught our politicians something. Although May for one, and no doubt many MPs, appear to be woefully ignorant of history.

The best chance of avoiding the worst damage to the country is if the UK government blinks at the last moment and signs up to the EU's 3 preconditions - NI, expats rights, bill - to enable an orderly Withdrawal Agreement.

This may be after May is deposed and / or the HoC forces out the current govt.

Barnier undoubtedly has the WA document ready to sign, complete with an extendable transition period to work out the details and future relationships.

After the current government using wordplay to weasel out of previously agreed commitments, the EU would presumably not permit any meaningless fudge text to plactate Brexiters and obscure exactly what commitments the UK is signing.

A referendum that gave no-deal would make this last minute WA far more unlikely and difficult for a UK government, because of the increased risk of political collapse and civil disorder from ignoring TWO referenda resulty.

Since the 1920s /30s, referenda have proved very useful tools for demagogues and dictators.
Especially with the funders of Cambridge Analytica and the far right becoming ever more active,

The former military field of psy-ops - intended to be applied in wars against dictators - has been fully reversed and weaponised for Regime Change in the developed countries that spawned them

The no-dealers have power and momentum, because under A50 no deal is te auomatic default,
unless specifically a Withdrawal Agrement is signed.

That is an enormous advantage for them.
All they need to do is to block, obfuscate, delay a deal by any means they can - until 11pm 31 March and they have won.