Westminstenders: Summer Season

[RedToothBrush]

No its not the weather making your brain rot and stop thinking.

Thats just Brexit.

hold out for unicorns

Brexit: Tory MPs warn of entryism threat from Leave.EU supporters

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/19/brexit-tory-mps-warn-of-entryism-threat-from-leave-eu-supporters

Conservative MPs are warning of a risk of entryism in the party as the pro-Brexit group Leave.EU encourages its supporters to become members in order to back Boris Johnson or Jacob Rees-Mogg in a future leadership contest.
…
Conservative party rules mean anyone who has been a member for more than three months can vote in a leadership contest.
Grassroots members have the final say between a pair of candidates, selected by Conservative MPs in a series of ballots.
Leave.EU was set up by the rightwing businessman and Ukip-backer Arron Banks to fight the 2016 referendum
…
It claims to have 88,000 supporters,

Maybe remainers should all join the conservative party as well? If it can be flooded from one side, it can be flooded by the other.

I was contemplating it myself Icantreachthepretzels

uk.businessinsider.com/twenty-one-biggest-donors-to-the-leave-brexit-campaign-2017-5/#21-tessa-keswick-20000-1

Goes from lowest donor to the highest. Interesting, but not surprising.

Quarterly Public Opinion Barometer in the EU members

The UK is not typical.

• In most EU countries, more people trust the EU than their own governments

• Most popular policies are FOM of EU citizens and goods within the EU, along with peace between members

• Overall, 58% of citizens are optimistic about the future of the EU

• and 70% feel they are citizens of the EU, including a majority in all 28 countries - so even in the UK

Conclusions included on page 39:

http://ec.europa.eu/commfrontoffice/publicopinion/index.cfm/ResultDoc/download/DocumentKy/83548

Maybe remainers should all join the conservative party as well? If it can be flooded from one side, it can be flooded by the other.

Not sure I could hold my nose long enough to do that!

The WA has the backstop for NI as they have to remain in a customs union/SM in order for the terms of the GFA to be adhered to. So you are saying then that this means that the UK will accept that just for NI, and no where else?

Isn't the DUP red line that NI be treated exactly the same as the rest of the UK ? (Except for civil liberties, naturally).

I think in the end that is indeed what May will try to do as it's her only option: the customs Union on the island of Ireland and the border in the Irish Sea.

But it will may well bring her down - and the UK (as we know it) with her. The DUP won't forgive her but given that most of the English don't care about what happens in NI and the Scots votes are irrelevant, then she may well manage to get the WA through Parliament (especially if Corbyn continues to show no leadership sit on the fence ). The Scots might scream blue murder rightly so and it would set in train a 2nd Indyref with the justification that May has already made a special case for NI, so she can't morally obstruct the Scots from making their own choice. (But there again, where has any morality been shown in the current crop of Government politicians? )

Forgot to add: I seem to recall that the EU said that the Customs Union/Single Market for NI wasn't an option for the whole of the UK. Otherwise it's a way of circumventing the 4 pillars of the Single Market - in particular FoM.

I don't wish our glorious monarch any ill. But when you think how almost every piece of news since 23/6/16 has hardly improved anything, I wonder what a change of Monarch might bring ?

(Is my memory that treason can cover "imagining the death of the monarch" false ?)

(Is my memory that treason can cover "imagining the death of the monarch" false ?)

Not per se, but I think it's been interpreted a bit more liberally than that in more recent centuries.

I'm not sure a change of monarch would make any difference. Whoever it is, they can't say anything, can they?

I'm not sure a change of monarch would make any difference. Whoever it is, they can't say anything, can they?

I think it would be an emotional and existential shock for the "U"K. Let's just start with the fact that it's been debated - quite openly - that quite a few people like the idea of Charles abdicating so Wills can be King. Add to that the fact that there is a republican sympathy in society, and a change of Monarch might amplify that. Especially if it seems "the will of the people" for William V seems to be running high.

Then there's the cultural shock - there are more people alive that have only known one Monarch in their lives than can remember the last change. Myself, DW for a start.

And the whole thrust of Brexit has been chained to that "Rule Britannia"/"God Save the Queen" jingoism.

Bear in mind, Charles will be coming "to power" completely cold. He is frozen out of the briefings the Queen gets from her government. Briefings which can be two-way. They're never minuted, and no one else is ever present. We have no idea if the Queen has suggested or advised, let alone what it might have been.

Given that last, I have wondered (on this very forum) if Theresa May has been getting sage advice from the one source that no one can nobble.

Mother - I wasn't making any moral judgement (this whole clusterfuck is immoral ); my caveat was purely because she may survive going for the border in the Irish Sea because most of the voters in England don't care/are ignorant of the implications on NI and just want "Brexit sorted" - and the English MPs (with a few honourable exceptions) will just follow suit ( "The Will of the People" and all that shit ). Every single Scottish, Welsh and NI MP could vote against it and it would still go through just because of the sheer numbers of English MPs

A very good point. Not that there's anyone with enough guts in government to stand up and say it.

Theresa May could have said that the Referendum was void either when she took over, or when she threw her majority away at the election. The only thing I could see happening now, is another election, with all parties bar the Tories coming out for no Brexit or BINO. Otherwise, as at the last election, we will be spun the story that 80% of people voted for parties which supported brexit, with the implication that this means they want brexit to happen.

This will go down to the wire, as most significant negotiations do.

I live in hope that a crash out will NOT happen. Otherwise I would say that those advocating a no deal are traitors to our country and people.

The deal will have to equate with the remaining EU member States status WRT to trade, free movement, directives etc. Otherwise there is no point to it in an EU context.

I'd say Theresa would love to plant her walking poles somewhere other than on an Alpine slope right now!

Theresa May could have said that the Referendum was void

She could have said thank you for your advice from the advisory referendum. We are assessing the economic impact. Then having done so, she could have said the time may come to relinquish EU membership but the timing isn't right and we will heed your advice when it's beneficial to do so.

She did not do this because she too is fixated on kicking out foreigners, despite the fact that the foreigners she wants rid of aren't EU ones. And despite the fact that all serious studies show the benefits of migration outweigh any detriment.

yes there was never any need for any of this clusterfuck. At every point there was the ability to apply the breaks and do the sensible thing. Not calling the referendum in the first place, putting a maximum percentage by which leave would have to win by, saying 'thanks for the advice we'll take it under consideration', getting economic impact assessments done prior to the triggering of article 50, having a plan ready prior to the triggering of article 50, saying that the 2017 new parliament was no longer beholden to the referendum result, just opting for Norway +.
The opportunities to avert disaster have been endless. And yet we have continued to careen headlong into catastrophe - continually making the worst (and often illegal) decisions possible at every turn, making the situation more difficult and more dangerous at every step.

Going on our previous form, therefore, I would think that it will take nothing short of an actual miracle to apply the brakes and for the govt to start making sensible decisions which will not harm the vast majority of the populace. As in actual divine intervention is the only thing that could possibly help us now... but I am an atheist so...

I do agree with this:
Otherwise I would say that those advocating a no deal are traitors to our country and people.

And I do hope they are one day prosecuted for treason. Even if we have to do what Charles II did to Cromwell - and dig them up to put them on trial. It needs to be done.

take nothing short of an actual miracle to apply the brakes...

I agree -it's like some one said threads ago. It's like a heavy unstoppable ball gathering momentum down a steep incline.

take nothing short of an actual miracle to apply the brakes...
Would it be wrong to take up or invent a religion and pray that Corbyn is unseated? (the more I read about Venezuela the more that crew give me the heeby jeebies)
@lmharpin
Exclusive: Jeremy Corbyn attended a conference in Qatar with Hamas military leader jailed for terror attacks which left 100 dead www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/08/19/exclusive-jeremy-corbyn-attended-conference-qatar-hamas-military/?WT.mc_id=tmg_share_tw … via @Telegraph