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Brexit

An open letter to leavers

999 replies

LoveInTokyo · 02/08/2018 12:54

Dear Leavers

I’m sorry that David Cameron offered us a referendum and promised to respect the outcome, whatever it was.

Unfortunately, he was fucking with you.

He promised that referendum when he didn’t think he stood a cat’s chance in hell of getting a majority, and never thought he’d actually have to deliver on it. When he got his surprise majority, he made a big show of going to Brussels and pretending to negotiate with the EU to get us a “better deal”. Unfortunately, he already knew perfectly well that the UK already had a better deal than any other country in the EU, and that they were not going to bend over backwards to get us to stay. So he made a big show of negotiating and then tried to pretend that he had done something meaningful. He then went through the motions of holding a referendum, half-heartedly campaigning to remain. He did absolutely no contingency planning, partly because he never believed that leave would actually win, and partly because he already knew that he had no intention of staying to deal with the fallout if they did. That’s why he resigned the day after the referendum and waltzed off, whistling a merry tune.

He played a high risk game of poker with our money, and lost.

I understand that many of you feel defensive about your decision and dislike being labelled “thick” by angry remainers. As a remainer myself, I feel saddened and frustrated that none of you seem able to articulate any benefits that will actually come out of Brexit. But at this stage, I would quite happily accept that there will be no benefits, and settle for damage limitation. Unfortunately none of you seem able to explain how we limit the damage either.

We cannot leave the single market and customs union without there being a hard border in Ireland, which will put people’s lives at risk. We cannot leave the single market and customs union without severely damaging most sectors of the economy, which would cause untold hardship for millions of people living in the UK. I realise that remaining in the single market and customs union would make leaving the EU pointless, but it is the only way to limit the damage.

The government has made almost no progress towards getting a workable deal in place, and time is running out. We don’t have the infrastructure in place to ensure that supply chains of essential food and medicine will not be disrupted after Brexit day. We don’t have a plan to ensure that planes will still be able to take off and land, or that satnav will still work. We do not have any trade deals lined up. We simply do not have time to do any of these things.

Dear leavers, you do not have solutions to any of these problems, and more importantly, neither do Theresa May, Boris Johnson, David Davis, Liam Fox, Nigel Farage, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Andrea Leadsom, Daniel Hannan, Jeremy Corbyn, Kate Hoey or any of the people who claim to think Brexit is the right choice for the UK.

A no-deal Brexit is unthinkable. It is not an option.

I realise that many of you will feel betrayed if we do not get the kind of Brexit you want. But to be honest, you’re going to feel betrayed even if you do get the kind of Brexit you want, because it will be unimaginably shit. This is not "project fear", it is "project reality".

The government has a duty to act in the best interests of the country as a whole. It’s not good enough to lay the blame at David Cameron’s door and say he held the referendum so we have to respect the vote. David Cameron has been out of office for two years. It is now plainer than ever that leaving the EU is a terrible idea, and there is still time to put the brakes on and not go through with it. If the government goes through with this when they could put a stop to it, they cannot continue to blame David Cameron and claim that their hands were tied. They are not.

It is time for Theresa May to do the decent thing and say, “I’m sorry, I know it’s what the people voted for, but it simply can’t be done without causing a totally unacceptable amount of harm to the country. And I have a duty of care towards everyone, not just the 51.8% who voted leave.”

OP posts:
LoveInTokyo · 05/08/2018 19:31

LikeIDo1

The aviation stuff is not speculation, it is what happens if we fall out of the Open Skies Agreement with nothing to replace it.

Aviation industry experts’ views that this will not happen are based on the premise that a deal will be done.

Government is telling us to prepare for no deal being done.

OP posts:
Rosstac · 05/08/2018 19:32

surferjet so will I blame the EU and the UK if together they can’t agree a deal, if they don’t then we must agree that neither them wanted too, The EU that’s wants you to suffer all of you, especially if it’s going to be a bad as you seem to think it will

LikeIDo1 · 05/08/2018 19:34

And it's fine to prepare but again, no one knows the outcome or can predict the future so it's all speculation.

Using statements like "everyone's lives will be damaged " is stating predictions as facts. They are not facts because you don't know everyone's lives will be damaged without a crystal ball.

Rosstac · 05/08/2018 19:34

LoveInTokyo they are telling us because they have to otherwise people will say nobody told us and to send a message to the EU that the UK is getting prepared for a no deal as the EU think we will agree a shit deal,

Rosstac · 05/08/2018 19:36

LikeIDo1no but that doesn’t scare you if you say might happen, you got to scare the leavers on here so they will ring up TM and demand the government stops Brexit

Walkingdeadfangirl · 05/08/2018 19:36

TM, however arrogant, is not going to pull the trigger on no deal
So why are remainers hysterical with worry about about us leaving with a WTO deal?
I would take the other view, she definitely has the balls to walk away from the EU if they dont want a deal.

As for the Tories being out of power for a decade, 2 words why that will never happen. Jeremy Corbyn.

LikeIDo1 · 05/08/2018 19:39

I have to agree that Labour will never gain power with corbyn as leader.

golondrina · 05/08/2018 19:40

All this "it's just speculation", do you people not understand the word consequences? If there is no deal and we drop out of the Open Skies agreement with nothing to replace it (which is what No deal Brexshit means) then PLANES CAN'T TAKE OFF AND LAND. That's not speculation, that's just a fact. It's the consequence of no deal. It's like saying if I tell you to throw a hairdyer into your bath while it's switched on that it will electrocute you and you go "oh that's just speculation, you don't have a crystal ball". It's a fucking fact!

Peregrina · 05/08/2018 19:42

Funnily enough I don't think I have talked about making the best of anything.

You need to stop obsessing over the world ending & get a grip.
So yes, get over yourselves & think positively. Make the best of your situation.

Nor have I talked of the world ending. I can see a wonderful advantage in Brexit - it clears Farage out of politics. Whether it will be enough to shut him up remains to be seen though.

Since the quotes were yours surferjet and you have crowed and crowed, you need to own up to the success of the Leave win. If you think May is making a pig's ear of Brexit, then for a starter get writing to your MP about it.

Mind you, you are not alone, there was one the other day who said she would prefer Remain but had been one of the biggest cheer leaders for Leave.

golondrina · 05/08/2018 19:43

And all this, "poor people have nothing to lose" how about the roof over their heads? Things may seem shit but they can get a whole lot shitter yet and it's the poor people who will be hit first, hardest and for the longest.
I think people who voted out obviously know nothing about even quite recent history. Things can get very much worse.

derxa · 05/08/2018 19:43

I have to agree that Labour will never gain power with corbyn as leader. I hope and pray that Corbyn is never PM. There has been a shadow over this country since the referendum and Corbyn getting in would be a disaster.

prettybird · 05/08/2018 19:45

Rosstac - again you miss the point deliberately or are you just being obtuse?

As has been explained, repeatedly, on these and similar threads, the EU's FoM is freedom of movement to work . The fact that the UK has no system of checking how long people have been here is the UK's problem, not the EU's. Confused

You seem to be a believer in Schrodinger's EU Immigrants: EU citizens taking all the jobs, yet simultaneously being scroungers doing nothing on benefits and being a drain on the public purse Confused (despite the research saying that EU immigrants are actually net contributors to the economyHmm) because they can stay undetected for more than 3 months.

Other EU countries do expect some form of registration.

Your argument is the equivalent of asking for the answer to 2+2, while excluding the answer 4 Confused

Bearbehind · 05/08/2018 19:47

We are all in it together though aren’t we
Moaning and arguing about who’s right & who’s wrong is pointless now isn’t it.
Brexit will not be stopped so best pull together & make the best of it.

PMSL - that's not exactly what was on the ballot paper was it?!

Bearbehind · 05/08/2018 19:51

If all these terrible things happen it will be the EU’s fault for not agreeing to our terms.

And then people wonder why Leavers are perceived to be arrogant fucking twats.

It's demonstrated right there, in 1 sentence.

surferjet · 05/08/2018 19:52

I’m not sure what you’re talking about Peregrina - I’ve never once said I regret voting leave. Because I never have regretted it, not for a second.
In fact, it’s talking to the remainers on here that makes me even happier about leaving ( not sure why? )
I know you all mean well & are genuinely concerned about Brexit, but your posts make no difference to anyone or anything.

Bearbehind · 05/08/2018 19:52

So why are remainers hysterical with worry about about us leaving with a WTO deal?

I'm not.

It's not going to happen.

I'm just pissed off at this charade we have to go through before that is conceded.

LikeIDo1 · 05/08/2018 19:53

Leaving anything which you have been intertwined with for years is going to be scary and complicated.

Not on the same scale of course (and I do know this) When I left my marriage is was like stepping into the dark for a while with absolutely no idea how I was going to do anything with the scared emotions of "I'll never have xyz again." Especially as I was financially reliant on him, worked in a business with him etc. I left and it was very difficult at first, I was in thousands of pounds of debt, I had no idea how to do certain things. He was the same, he had to work out child split arrangements with me and have them on his own (rather than just being with them 2 hours a day when the hard work of it all was done.) He has to work out how to juggle work with doing a couple of school runs every week, he had the worry of our divorce and whether we could split without him loosing his house (it was his before we met.)

Then I found my feet, got myself a new job, moved into my own house, worked out how to live on my own, manage all the bills, get the best deals on things I could, got myself out of debt. I thought I'd never be able to afford to eat out again or have a weekend away.. but I do now.

It was a minefield, scary awful. But we did it. He worked out the work/kids balance, he didn't loose the house.

Now life is different, we went through some scary, worrying times working it all out but it worked out in the end.

It will take time after leaving the EU to work it all out, it will be a minefield and it will be scary. And then it won't.

Peregrina · 05/08/2018 19:53

Blair of course, had some overly elaborate and expensive ID card proposals, which I am pretty sure that May scuppered as soon as she became Home Secretary. Scuppered, but didn't put any suggestions for a simpler scheme in place, e.g. similar to registering for a bus pass i.e. fill in a form, and send that and a photo to the County Council. Again the buck can be passed back to Westminster.

Bearbehind · 05/08/2018 19:55

I have to agree about Corbyn.

He is fucking useless.

It's pathetic that whilst the current government are making such a mess of things, there is still no credible opposition.

A trained monkey would be more effective.

Peregrina · 05/08/2018 19:58

At heart Corbyn is a Lexiter. He wants the EU to collapse to bring on the workers revolution, or some such.

Rosstac · 05/08/2018 20:00

prettybird It’s good for you that in your position you see a different side to EU immigration, I see and experience the side where they are doing min wage jobs, living in social housing, claiming HB,WTC, CA,, children unable to speak English taking up time and resources at School and slowing the education of the English children down, using the NHS A&E as they are not registered with a Doctor, but then get registered quickly I could gone on, but I’ll get called a bigot or racist

surferjet · 05/08/2018 20:02

LikeIDo1
Really glad things turned out well for you. 😊

Rosstac · 05/08/2018 20:02

Bearbehind

If all these terrible things happen it will be the EU’s fault for not agreeing to our terms.
Where did it say that ?

LikeIDo1 · 05/08/2018 20:02

"If there is no deal and we drop out of the Open Skies agreement with nothing to replace it (which is what No deal Brexshit means) then PLANES CAN'T TAKE OFF AND LAND. That's not speculation, that's just a fact. It's the consequence of no deal."

That is speculation right there. "If" there is no deal.. you don't know "if" there will be no deal, you are speculating so it's not a fact.

It's ok to prepare so the legal consequences of a no deal happens. But people saying XYZ will happen are just speculating, not stating facts, because we don't know if there will be a deal or not as we can't see into the future.

surferjet · 05/08/2018 20:03

Go Corbyn!
‘Workers of the world unite - you have nothing to lose but your chains’

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